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Livingstone
#11
(04-06-2017, 11:13 AM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(04-06-2017, 08:04 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote:
(04-05-2017, 08:01 AM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote: Judging by the support he's getting on social media this issue is a massive problem in that party.

And it turns out that he hasn't been suspended at all. He is still a full member, can attend meetings and vote.

Disgraceful.

Can you imagine the whining if this was a Tory 'grandee' saying this and being treated like this? And it gets worse. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/849528346224578560


I can imagine it.

For example David Cameron's disgraceful behaviour at PMQs, when he accused Sadiq Khan of sharing a platform with an IS supporting imam. Not only did the imam not support IS, but he had been invited to speak at Conservative meetings and had publically supported Khan's tory opponent at the 2015 GE - no apology from Cameron, one from Michael Fallon, mind who unlike Cameron made the same accusations, but without parliamentary immunity, and was forced to apologise or face defamation action.

Or Boris Johnson, who accused Barak Obama of being anti British because of his Kenyan ancestary. Not only a slur against the integrity of Obama, but a slur against the entire Kenyan nation, one of our closer allies in Africa.

The lack of media scrutiny in both these cases, shows the different expectations made on Tory and Labour politicians. Livingstone is a disgrace and a significant negative for Labour, but his 'sins' are given the full media spotlight while Tories keep getting away with it.

Those remarks received full coverage, but you obviously chose to ignore it. The difference is that Livingstone is a repeat offender on the same issue. 

If you are talking about abuse of Parliamentary privilege, step forward the Lord and saviour of West Bromwich Tom Watson. At least he's a had a pop at Livingstone, mind.

hey got very little exposure comparatively and even less censure. Cameron's remark in particular were a disgrace, using parliamentary privilege to accuse Sadiq Khan of extremist links to a man who had far closer links to the Conservative Party, and who had anyway organised conferences to combat IS . Cameron never apologised for this and nor has there been a media clamour for him to do so, nor have the Conservative Party sought to investigate his behaviour, never mind censure him -  so there is no comparison with the Livingstone situation at all.
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#12
(04-06-2017, 08:49 AM)Montserratbaggie Wrote:
(04-05-2017, 09:10 PM)King Astle Wrote: whilst he may be correct in the sense that both Hitler and Zionists wanted Jews out of Europe, Livingstone also knows that when he says things like "Hitler was a zionist" that it plays into the hands of those who often compare Israel with the actions of the Nazis in WW2. 
He also has form for comparing Jews to nazis, once telling a Jewish journalist he was no different to a gestapo guard in a concentration camp. 
Livingstone knows the insensitive nature of what he is doing will cause upset, and he either doesn't care about or deliberately wants to offend by the seems of it. A bit odd for a man whose job it is to appeal to the public?

Livingston never mentioned 'Jews'. He spoke about Zionists.

Comparison between Israel and Nazi Germany have many valid points. Racial discrimination, community punishments, murder and imprisonment of political opponents. And most similar is the policy of Lebensraum. 

[Image: palestinian_land_loss_map.jpg]
ah that old lie - the truth is below :

[Image: lying++maps.jpg]

(04-05-2017, 09:22 PM)Great Bridge Wrote:
(04-05-2017, 09:10 PM)King Astle Wrote:
(04-05-2017, 01:36 PM)Montserratbaggie Wrote: Hitler (or more accurately his Nazi regime) signed an agreement with the Zionist Federation of Germany and the Jewish Agency for Palestine to facilitate the emigration of Jews to Palestine in 1933 to build the proposed Zionist state. 
 
The Nazis did this, of course, to get rid of Jews and the Zionists did this to help create their state. Livingston is telling the truth. His claim that Hitler ‘went mad’ is insulting to all the victims of his policy of mass murder.

whilst he may be correct in the sense that both Hitler and Zionists wanted Jews out of Europe, Livingstone also knows that when he says things like "Hitler was a zionist" that it plays into the hands of those who often compare Israel with the actions of the Nazis in WW2. 
He also has form for comparing Jews to nazis, once telling a Jewish journalist he was no different to a gestapo guard in a concentration camp. 
Livingstone knows the insensitive nature of what he is doing will cause upset, and he either doesn't care about or deliberately wants to offend by the seems of it. A bit odd for a man whose job it is to appeal to the public?
Sometimes the truth offends some people and it's obviously uncomfortable for today's zionists to accept what was done in the past in their name.

you mean like reclaiming their homeland after 2000 years of pogroms, discrimination and holocaust and then defending that land when arabs attack civilians including children in their schools?
[Image: Israeli+land+concessions.jpg]

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#13
Oh the 2 million Palestinians imprisoned in Gaza should be more grateful
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#14
(04-06-2017, 08:33 PM)Great Bridge Wrote: Oh the 2 million Palestinians imprisoned in Gaza should be more grateful

Don't, we will have Proth on soon saying it is a shining beacon! Or some such bullshit
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#15
(04-06-2017, 08:38 PM)Donegal Wrote:
(04-06-2017, 08:33 PM)Great Bridge Wrote: Oh the 2 million Palestinians imprisoned in Gaza should be more grateful

Don't, we will have Proth on soon saying it is a shining beacon! Or some such bullshit

It is. Of all the countries in the Middle East it's the only one you or I could live freely in. Just because you're a hand wringing supporter of residents of a country that never existed doesn't change the fact that the only succesful democratic and free state in the Middle East is Israel.

Roughly a FIFTH of Israeli residents are Arabs. If Israel was such a bloody awful place to live, why do they stay? Maybe it's because the get the vote - even Allah-forbid - WOMEN.

Arabs hold seats in the Knesset. There are 10 Muslim MPs, only 3 less than the UK. Arabs are excused from conscription so they don't have to take up arms against other Arabs.

In the despotic cesspit of the Middle East Israel does indeed shine like a beacon.

And as I've said on here before, the Egyptians have as little regard for the terrorist state of Gaza as the Israelis do. Maybe, just maybe Gazan's plight hasn't been helped by electing a terrorist government, firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel, blowing up kids in cafes and destabilising the Sinai....
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#16
The hand wringers were the people who supported a Zionist state in sympathy for what the jews suffered under the nazis

Palestine is clearly marked on any map of the area until the 1950s and had been recognised as a state for decades and a region of the Ottoman Empire for centuries.

Not every Jew is a israeli or a Zionist and there are many that support the state of Israel to exist but not at the expense of Palestinians
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#17
(04-06-2017, 08:33 PM)Great Bridge Wrote: Oh the 2 million Palestinians imprisoned in Gaza should be more grateful

You do realise the whole idea of "Palestinians" is a political construct designed to engender sympathy for the Arabs involved in the conflict. Even senior members of the PLO are on record as saying so.

(04-07-2017, 05:04 PM)Great Bridge Wrote: The hand wringers were the people who supported a Zionist state in sympathy for what the jews suffered under the nazis

Palestine is clearly marked on any map of the area until the 1950s and had been recognised as a state for decades and a region of the Ottoman Empire for centuries.

Not every Jew is a israeli or a Zionist and there are many that support the state of Israel to exist but not at the expense of Palestinians

And yet the stated aim of the enemies of Israel is its destruction. They have no intention of peaceful co existence, how are the Israelis meant to deal with that?
Proth is quite correct, in that region Israel is a beacon of sanity. No wonder it's named a the best place in the region for women to live, Arab women included. Tell me any other country where there are gay nightclubs instead of people being executed for who they sleep with? And again, how come Israel gets such a bad press when it doesn't restrict "Palestinians" from working as doctors or lawyers like some of those so called brother Arab nations do?
Once again what we see is those on the left siding with what are basically fascists for ideological reasons.

(04-07-2017, 05:04 PM)Great Bridge Wrote: The hand wringers were the people who supported a Zionist state in sympathy for what the jews suffered under the nazis

Palestine is clearly marked on any map of the area until the 1950s and had been recognised as a state for decades and a region of the Ottoman Empire for centuries.

Not every Jew is a israeli or a Zionist and there are many that support the state of Israel to exist but not at the expense of Palestinians

You're right it's clearly marked and here is it's flag
[Image: FlagPix.jpg]

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#18
You seem to know a bit about the history of Israel, tell us about Irgun declared a Zionist terrorist organisation by the UN and US and UK and responsible for hundreds of attacks and deaths in the 30s and 40s. Or do you consider them freedom fighters against british imperial rule?
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#19
Nothing is more fraught with danger than a discussion on Israel.

Too many people are called anti semitic when they are just being critical of the Israelli Govt.

Too many anti semites hide behind the claim of just being anti Zionist.

The truth is that Israel are surrounded by enemies, many who wish for Israel not to exist. To counter this the Israeli Govt have adopted some strategies which in my view are in the long term counter productive and plain wrong. For example there was very little justification to the high loss of civilian life in the Gaza strip during the last outbreak of fighting in 2012(?).

Comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany are seriously misjudged. But it should be possible to be able to make criticism of the Israelli Govt without being called anti semitic.
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#20
Amongst all the mewling, puking, hot air, bullshit and agendas this is the first sensible thing I have seen

Let's look at the F A C T S


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...ivingstone?
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