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69% of the UK thinks Brexit should go ahead
#1
Smoke on that, 'Logic'. https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/att...ow-so-far/
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#2
Is there nothing you won't masturbate to?
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#3
(04-02-2017, 06:11 PM)Arti Wrote: Is there nothing you won't masturbate to?

Bit hurt by the figure there, so you thought you;d try to have a go at me?

Oh, well. Small things, small minds and all that.
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#4
(04-02-2017, 06:44 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(04-02-2017, 06:11 PM)Arti Wrote: Is there nothing you won't masturbate to?

Bit hurt by the figure there, so you thought you;d try to have a go at me?

Oh, well. Small things, small minds and all that.

I'm part of that 69%. It should go ahead. I just think we should have another referendum to give the final deal some legitimacy.
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#5
(04-02-2017, 06:47 PM)logic1 Wrote: I'm part of that 69%. It should go ahead. I just think we should have another referendum to give the final deal some legitimacy.

I'm curious, so humour me. What was it about Maastricht and Lisbon that didn't require 'some legitimacy'?

Surely the repatriacian of powers away from Westminster is far more worthy of a plebiscite than a transfer back?
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#6
I'm probably in the 69% as well. Doesn't stop me thinking it'll go tits up still though and we might need (I'm not DEMANDING one) another referendum on something or other at some point.
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#7
(04-02-2017, 08:30 PM)Zoltanger Wrote: I'm probably in the 69% as well. Doesn't stop me thinking it'll go tits up still though and we might need (I'm not DEMANDING one) another referendum on something or other at some point.

On what, though? May has already said there won't be on on the terms of exit.
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#8
(04-02-2017, 10:06 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(04-02-2017, 08:30 PM)Zoltanger Wrote: I'm probably in the 69% as well. Doesn't stop me thinking it'll go tits up still though and we might need (I'm not DEMANDING one) another referendum on something or other at some point.

On what, though? May has already said there won't be on on the terms of exit.

I was trying to be deliberately vague. Apologies for the resulting scattergun approach.

Possible situations where another referendum is needed;
  • Still don't have a definitive answer on whether A50 can be reversed. If mood changes enough we'll see.
  • Final exit terms
  • Terms to get single market access after leaving. People still want this as well as stopping freedom of movement. They may be tested on which is the priority and might accept restricted freedom of movement
  • War with Spain (only joking)
  • A. n. other (negotiations to be extended?)
Don't kid yourself that the public mood cannot change on Brexit. May has plenty of chainsaws to juggle and a few more maybe thrown in .;
  • Scotland
  • Northern Ireland
  • Gibraltar
  • EU and British citizens rights abroad with potentially pissed off pensioners returning to replace young net contributors to the exchequer adding further to the strains on the NHS
  • Government conceding we are reliant on EU workers for the foreseeable future
  • The Jungle moving to Dover and other parts of UKIP's heartlands
  • Wrangling over the divorce bill
  • More worms to emerge from the can
  • Non specific Brexit issues e.g.NHS crisis next winter (this may not be helped by EU staff not joining/leaving)
If one or two of these chainsaws heads off in the audience's (both the public and within her party) direction the mood could change and no one may give a shit on her views on the terms of exit soon.
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#9
I guess I'm in the 69% but less likely to ever move back to the UK ever again partly as a result of this.
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#10
(04-03-2017, 05:52 AM)Zoltanger Wrote:
(04-02-2017, 10:06 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(04-02-2017, 08:30 PM)Zoltanger Wrote: I'm probably in the 69% as well. Doesn't stop me thinking it'll go tits up still though and we might need (I'm not DEMANDING one) another referendum on something or other at some point.

On what, though? May has already said there won't be on on the terms of exit.

I was trying to be deliberately vague. Apologies for the resulting scattergun approach.

Possible situations where another referendum is needed;
  • Still don't have a definitive answer on whether A50 can be reversed. If mood changes enough we'll see.
  • Final exit terms
  • Terms to get single market access after leaving. People still want this as well as stopping freedom of movement. They may be tested on which is the priority and might accept restricted freedom of movement
  • War with Spain (only joking)
  • A. n. other (negotiations to be extended?)
Don't kid yourself that the public mood cannot change on Brexit. May has plenty of chainsaws to juggle and a few more maybe thrown in .;
  • Scotland
  • Northern Ireland
  • Gibraltar
  • EU and British citizens rights abroad with potentially pissed off pensioners returning to replace young net contributors to the exchequer adding further to the strains on the NHS
  • Government conceding we are reliant on EU workers for the foreseeable future
  • The Jungle moving to Dover and other parts of UKIP's heartlands
  • Wrangling over the divorce bill
  • More worms to emerge from the can
  • Non specific Brexit issues e.g.NHS crisis next winter (this may not be helped by EU staff not joining/leaving)
If one or two of these chainsaws heads off in the audience's (both the public and within her party) direction the mood could change and no one may give a shit on her views on the terms of exit soon.

Whether Art 50 can be reversed is a matter for the courts, should it become relevant. 

If so, a reference to the ECJ will be made. As the fact that it is reversible would help to keep us in the EU, the ECJ will almost certainly decide that it is. But this is only an issue if Parliament passes legislation to keep us in the EU further down the line. (A corollary of the Supreme Court's decision in Gina Miller's case is that May alone could not withdraw the Art 50 notice using the prerogative.)

What I don't get about people wanting a referendum on the final deal is this. Some of those same people wanted Parliament to vote on the triggering of Art 50 as MPs are our representatives and Parliament is the true democratic process in the UK, not referenda.

But they now want a referendum on the final deal with us staying in the EU if the deal is rejected. That is in addition to the vote in Parliament on the deal that they want and are getting. This position is one of Nick Clegg and Tim Farron. Again.

I know the Parliamentary vote being offered is not to Clegg and Farron's liking but the point on the referendum remains: it wasn't a legitimate expression of democracy sufficient enough to take us out, but a referendum will be a legitimate expression of democracy enough to keep us in.

 We may also get access to the single market without freedom of movement a la Canada, though I think that is very, very unlikely. 

The issue of British citizens abroad is a matter for the EU and the individual states after we have left. I doubt they will be turfed-out as they tend to be monied. 

The jungle won't move to the UK because the deal establishing checks in France was concluded outside the EU framework. It continues in force. That was another remain lie, actually. 

I also doubt that the negotiation period will be extended as this requires unanimity. Us leaving without a trade deal is to Spain's benefits as it would then effectively have a veto under Art 218 on any such deal and its applicability to Gibraltar. 

The mood COULD change. But if things continue as they are (economically) I think the quite petty noises coming out of Brussels and Madrid will strengthen the Brexit sentiment.
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