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From the Express!
#21
(02-09-2017, 09:00 AM)Bratislava Baggie Wrote: We could pay them more for sure which would make the prices go up and then they would be more expensive than other countries food meaning farmers wouldn't be able to sell the produce.
Unless you want to them heavily charge imported food to compensate which doesn't seem very "free market"

Can I refer you to the liberalisation (de-subsidisation) of the New Zealand agricultural sector and its roaring success, and also to the likelihood that many foodstuffs will become cheaper once we're free of the the EU's Common Tariff straightjacket on goods from the rest of the world?

That's very free market. The best sort of market.
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#22
(02-09-2017, 09:11 AM)Strawman Wrote:
(02-09-2017, 08:59 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: Where do I support suppressing wages to keep prices down? I'm just making the point (yet again) that many leave supporters will be moaning their heads off if prices rise.

If we are reliant on immigrant workers and Brexit leads to fewer coming from the EU where are they going to come from? May I suggest that if their skin colour does not suit that many of your Brexit brethren may be a tad pissed off.

Actually I support equivalence of opportunity from all countries in the world, not based on the discriminatory EU rules of freedom of movement for countries of mainly white origin. All the EU and it's supporters have done while calling people racist is to move the borders of it's discrimination.

Immigration is necessary but should be based on skills, requirement and equivelance. The majority of NHS staff that is not UK national, for instance, is taken not from he EU but from other countries. They of course have to jump through hoops to get visas etc.

But you keep suggesting that leave voters are racist or associate with racists whilst ignoring your own support of discriminatory practices

At the risk of being unfashionable in the current climate I see your point of view and will reflect upon it. How many leave voters share it and how many racists voted remain do you think?
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#23
(02-09-2017, 09:34 AM)Zoltanger Wrote:
(02-09-2017, 09:11 AM)Strawman Wrote:
(02-09-2017, 08:59 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: Where do I support suppressing wages to keep prices down? I'm just making the point (yet again) that many leave supporters will be moaning their heads off if prices rise.

If we are reliant on immigrant workers and Brexit leads to fewer coming from the EU where are they going to come from? May I suggest that if their skin colour does not suit that many of your Brexit brethren may be a tad pissed off.

Actually I support equivalence of opportunity from all countries in the world, not based on the discriminatory EU rules of freedom of movement for countries of mainly white origin. All the EU and it's supporters have done while calling people racist is to move the borders of it's discrimination.

Immigration is necessary but should be based on skills, requirement and equivelance. The majority of NHS staff that is not UK national, for instance, is taken not from he EU but from other countries. They of course have to jump through hoops to get visas etc.

But you keep suggesting that leave voters are racist or associate with racists whilst ignoring your own support of discriminatory practices

At the risk of being unfashionable in the current climate I see your point of view and will reflect upon it. How many leave voters share it and how many racists voted remain do you think?

Straw is completely right in this matter. The EU has a de facto racist immigration policy, furthermore its Common Tariff is de facto racist Trade Policy - there is no tariff on Coffee Beans from Africa, but a huge tariff on Coffee refined in Africa. Why? To protect the German coffee refining industry and to prevent the development of a coffee refining industry in the developing world. This model is replicated across a vast number of foodstuffs and primary products.

So, please tell me - who are the racists in this debate?
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#24
I wish I hadn't played the r card. No way was I trying to say all leave voters are racist and as I said you both have valid points on the EU.

If Brexit doesn't reduce immigration significantly how many leave supporters will be happy with this?
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#25
Ok so we only bring in immigrant workers with 'skills and qualifications' so do they still do the crap jobs that the won't work, hard done by, white non working class won't do? I think it's rather naive to expect those whose entire family haven't worked for generations are suddenly going to jump at the chance at working on a farm, laundry etc for an increased minimum wage and I'm even more sceptical that they are the type of people employees will want to employ.
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#26
(02-09-2017, 08:59 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: Where do I support suppressing wages to keep prices down? I'm just making the point (yet again) that many leave supporters will be moaning their heads off if prices rise.

If we are reliant on immigrant workers and Brexit leads to fewer coming from the EU where are they going to come from? May I suggest that if their skin colour does not suit that many of your Brexit brethren may be a tad pissed off.

Pure conjecture. This notion that the number of racists from the 'leave' side are my brethren is frankly repugnant, you sneering twat
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#27
(02-09-2017, 10:00 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Ok so we only bring in immigrant workers with 'skills and qualifications' so do they still do the crap jobs that the won't work, hard done by, white non working class won't do? I think it's rather naive to expect those whose entire family haven't worked for generations are suddenly going to jump at the chance at working on a farm, laundry etc for an increased minimum wage and I'm even more sceptical that they are the type of people employees will want to employ.

It may have escaped your notice, but we have had immigration for a long long time. You seem to be suggesting that it is only white people that won't do those jobs when it fact it could be previous immigrants, their descendants or the result of mixed race. I think you have shown yourself up to be both discriminatory and racist.
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#28
(02-09-2017, 10:11 AM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote:
(02-09-2017, 08:59 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: Where do I support suppressing wages to keep prices down? I'm just making the point (yet again) that many leave supporters will be moaning their heads off if prices rise.

If we are reliant on immigrant workers and Brexit leads to fewer coming from the EU where are they going to come from? May I suggest that if their skin colour does not suit that many of your Brexit brethren may be a tad pissed off.

Pure conjecture. This notion that the number of racists from the 'leave' side are my brethren is frankly repugnant, you sneering twat

I've already said I wished hadn't played r card and take back the brethren comment. It was crass and out of order. Still no need to get personal in my opinion.
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#29
(02-09-2017, 10:11 AM)Strawman Wrote:
(02-09-2017, 10:00 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Ok so we only bring in immigrant workers with 'skills and qualifications' so do they still do the crap jobs that the won't work, hard done by, white non working class won't do? I think it's rather naive to expect those whose entire family haven't worked for generations are suddenly going to jump at the chance at working on a farm, laundry etc for an increased minimum wage and I'm even more sceptical that they are the type of people employees will want to employ.

It may have escaped your notice, but we have had immigration for a long long time. You seem to be suggesting that it is only white people that won't do those jobs when it fact it could be previous immigrants, their descendants or the result of mixed race. I think you have shown yourself up to be both discriminatory and racist.

Whatever, I was using the statistical data that suggests that predominantly white working class (I'd argue with the term working class) areas were statistically most likely to vote for Brexit based on the news story on another thread and reported on by various news platforms. They are the demographic that is constantly spoken about being the most hard done by Brexiteers notably by UKIP etc. Obviously there are other people who don't want to work as well and the same applies will they want to do the crap jobs that they currently refuse to do?

As someone whose family are white, from working class estates I'm appalled at myself for such comments!  Big Grin
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#30
(02-09-2017, 09:56 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: I wish I hadn't played the r card. No way was I trying to say all leave voters are racist and as I said you both have valid points on the EU.

If Brexit doesn't reduce immigration significantly how many leave supporters will be happy with this?

Me for a start. It's not a question of numbers, it's a question of quality, distribution, housing, welfare and tax & benefit rules.

It is clearly fucking crazy that an unqualified EU immigrant can come here, get an NI number and instant access to the working poor benefit system whilst living in an overcrowded HIMO and leave himself open to exploitation by a gangmaster. That is the reality for a huge number of EU workers in the UK.

The constant cries from all quarters of the political spectrum are for high quality sustainable jobs, productivity improvements, high standards of health and welfare. None of you will disagree with any of that, yet by putting up with the open door on EU-immigration (and only EU immigration) there is a class of people in this country who can never aspire to any of those things & there is a class of employer in the country that has no regard for decency.
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