When did blatant lying become acceptable?
#21
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossible.
Reply
#22
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossMore
More fool you for coming into derek's echo chamber and expecting anything other than, mis-direction, whataboutery and general self righteousness.
Dreaming of sunlit uplands.
Reply
#23
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossible.

That wasn’t the point though, the three people I have mentioned are populist liars with huge influence. They are literally lying constantly to the point where it no longer matters and the media have seemingly given up or been complicit in questioning their lies. It is really dangerous and as B1 said the hard of thinking are supporting them like they are their favourite football team. There is no rational thought, even when presented with the facts they are dismissed out of hand. Pointing out others lie is lazy it doesn’t change the massive shift acceptance of just accepting lies and ignoring facts. I hear it all the time on the radio regurgitated lies by callers fed by Farage and Boris and co that even when those views are torn to shreds by facts they still go away believing they are right!

Populism, anti-education and the distrust of experts is unbelievably stupid and dangerous. If you want to carry on pointing out Diane Abbot etc that doesn’t mean you’re adding balance it’s simply a side show, a distraction from the most depressing aspects of a politics in the UK and abroad.

(05-18-2019, 07:13 PM)Man of Harlech Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossMore
More fool you for coming into derek's echo chamber and expecting anything other than, mis-direction, whataboutery and general self righteousness.

Arf the irony... whataboutery and misdirection on this thread  Big Grin

You like and believe Farage, Boris and Trump then?
Reply
#24
(05-18-2019, 07:18 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossible.

That wasn’t the point though, the three people I have mentioned are populist liars with huge influence. They are literally lying constantly to the point where it no longer matters and the media have seemingly given up or been complicit in questioning their lies. It is really dangerous and as B1 said the hard of thinking are supporting them like they are their favourite football team. There is no rational thought, even when presented with the facts they are dismissed out of hand. Pointing out others lie is lazy it doesn’t change the massive shift acceptance of just accepting lies and ignoring facts. I hear it all the time on the radio regurgitated lies by callers fed by Farage and Boris and co that even when those views are torn to shreds by facts they still go away believing they are right!

Populism, anti-education and the distrust of experts is unbelievably stupid and dangerous. If you want to carry on pointing out Diane Abbot etc that doesn’t mean you’re adding balance it’s simply a side show, a distraction from the most depressing aspects of a politics in the UK and abroad.

(05-18-2019, 07:13 PM)Man of Harlech Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossMore
More fool you for coming into derek's echo chamber and expecting anything other than, mis-direction, whataboutery and general self righteousness.

Arf the irony... whataboutery and misdirection on this thread  Big Grin

You like and believe Farage, Boris and Trump then?

The problem is Derek that Corbyn is also a populist.liar with huge influence and it is also dangerous that people are swallowing what he is saying. Mainly because fairly soon there will be a general election and he will be our PM. A while ago on a discussion regarding Brexit you said that you had voted remain because you believed that it was the best result for your family and that was what mattered most to you. I fully understand your thinking on that. But having read some of the things that Corbyn and McDonnell have planned I fear for the whole country not just for my family.
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#25
(05-18-2019, 08:01 PM)GMBaggie Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 07:18 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossible.

That wasn’t the point though, the three people I have mentioned are populist liars with huge influence. They are literally lying constantly to the point where it no longer matters and the media have seemingly given up or been complicit in questioning their lies. It is really dangerous and as B1 said the hard of thinking are supporting them like they are their favourite football team. There is no rational thought, even when presented with the facts they are dismissed out of hand. Pointing out others lie is lazy it doesn’t change the massive shift acceptance of just accepting lies and ignoring facts. I hear it all the time on the radio regurgitated lies by callers fed by Farage and Boris and co that even when those views are torn to shreds by facts they still go away believing they are right!

Populism, anti-education and the distrust of experts is unbelievably stupid and dangerous. If you want to carry on pointing out Diane Abbot etc that doesn’t mean you’re adding balance it’s simply a side show, a distraction from the most depressing aspects of a politics in the UK and abroad.

(05-18-2019, 07:13 PM)Man of Harlech Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossMore
More fool you for coming into derek's echo chamber and expecting anything other than, mis-direction, whataboutery and general self righteousness.

Arf the irony... whataboutery and misdirection on this thread  Big Grin

You like and believe Farage, Boris and Trump then?

The problem is Derek that Corbyn is also a populist.liar with huge influence and it is also dangerous that people are swallowing what he is saying. Mainly because fairly soon there will be a general election and he will be our PM. A while ago on a discussion regarding Brexit you said that you had voted remain because you believed that it was the best result for your family and that was what mattered most to you. I fully understand your thinking on that. But having read some of the things that Corbyn and McDonnell have planned I fear for the whole country not just for my family.

But I have never supported Corbyn, I have gone out my way to criticise him and Momentum in here. He’s far more transparent however in the danger he poses unlike those I mention. The polarising if politics is a major problem but one for another thread. That said there is little chance Labour will get into office with him charge.
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#26
(05-18-2019, 08:08 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 08:01 PM)GMBaggie Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 07:18 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossible.

That wasn’t the point though, the three people I have mentioned are populist liars with huge influence. They are literally lying constantly to the point where it no longer matters and the media have seemingly given up or been complicit in questioning their lies. It is really dangerous and as B1 said the hard of thinking are supporting them like they are their favourite football team. There is no rational thought, even when presented with the facts they are dismissed out of hand. Pointing out others lie is lazy it doesn’t change the massive shift acceptance of just accepting lies and ignoring facts. I hear it all the time on the radio regurgitated lies by callers fed by Farage and Boris and co that even when those views are torn to shreds by facts they still go away believing they are right!

Populism, anti-education and the distrust of experts is unbelievably stupid and dangerous. If you want to carry on pointing out Diane Abbot etc that doesn’t mean you’re adding balance it’s simply a side show, a distraction from the most depressing aspects of a politics in the UK and abroad.

(05-18-2019, 07:13 PM)Man of Harlech Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote: So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossMore
More fool you for coming into derek's echo chamber and expecting anything other than, mis-direction, whataboutery and general self righteousness.

Arf the irony... whataboutery and misdirection on this thread  Big Grin

You like and believe Farage, Boris and Trump then?

The problem is Derek that Corbyn is also a populist.liar with huge influence and it is also dangerous that people are swallowing what he is saying. Mainly because fairly soon there will be a general election and he will be our PM. A while ago on a discussion regarding Brexit you said that you had voted remain because you believed that it was the best result for your family and that was what mattered most to you. I fully understand your thinking on that. But having read some of the things that Corbyn and McDonnell have planned I fear for the whole country not just for my family.

But I have never supported Corbyn, I have gone out my way to criticise him and Momentum in here. He’s far more transparent however in the danger he poses unlike those I mention. The polarising if politics is a major problem but one for another thread. That said there is little chance Labour will get into office with him charge.
I know you don't support Corbyn. You have criticised him on a number of occasions. Unfortunately I think you're wrong about him having no chance of winning an election. Because of the total incompetence of the current government many Conservative supporters are turning to Farage. He has no chance of winning an election but he will be responsible for Corbyn winning. 
I'm in my mid 60's and through hard work and good fortune I have enough behind me (hopefully) to see me through. I do, however, have 2 sons in their 30's and 2 very young granddaughters and the thought of what long term damage Corbyn and McDonnell could do in a very short time scares the shit out of me for their sakes.
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#27
Out of interest, what damage is it you think Corbyn would do? Genuinely curious and I hear a lot about how he's "crazy" or would ruin the country and don't particularly understand it.

He's obviously a socialist but has been enormously reigned in by the party since becoming leader (imo) and anyway I think we could do with a bit of socialism after the ruinous austerity we've had in the past decade. I don't like him as I think any competent Labour leadership team would've been hitting the Tories for six every day for the past 3 years and been streets ahead in the polls by now.
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#28
No-one is trying to excuse lies by saying that remainers lied, threatened and emotionally blackmailed. Just pointing-out that this clamour for political probity only seems to exist as long as one disagrees with the alleged liar concerned.
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#29
(05-19-2019, 07:57 AM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote: Out of interest, what damage is it you think Corbyn would do? Genuinely curious and I hear a lot about how he's "crazy" or would ruin the country and don't particularly understand it.

He's obviously a socialist but has been enormously reigned in by the party since becoming leader (imo) and anyway I think we could do with a bit of socialism after the ruinous austerity we've had in the past decade. I don't like him as I think any competent Labour leadership team would've been hitting the Tories for six every day for the past 3 years and been streets ahead in the polls by now.
I give you Venezuela for socialism.......Corbyn wants to tax us to the max fuck that .
Reply
#30
(05-18-2019, 07:18 PM)QDerek Hardballs Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:49 PM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(05-18-2019, 06:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It gets fucking impossible to have any discussion on here at time because it's so partisan. Dekka makes a solid point about the absolute bullshit that spews out of Farage's gob every time he opens it, and the response tries to justify the lying by saying your side lies as well - it's all fucking wrong and the response is typical of the modern day voter. I can understand, obviously, defending the Albion even when they are bad when talking with other fans, but that shouldn't transfer over to politics when talking about the best way forward for the friggin country.

Lets keep this simple and start with one - Farage is a cunt of the highest order who just bullshits his way through life. He couldn't hold together and control his own party yet he thinks he could have got a better deal than May. And despite him having no answer to how things would work on WTO terms, he pushes it like it's magic beans. And justifies it with 'there are dozens of countries lining up to sign a trade deal with us' - no detail behind that an d no mention of them realising they can wade in and rape us for a deal that would suit them.

So, highlighting or redressing bias is not discussion? I would suggest that trying to shout a poster down simply because they may hold a different view or, indeed, try to add balance to an argument is what makes having a discussion impossible.

That wasn’t the point though, the three people I have mentioned are populist liars with huge influence. They are literally lying constantly to the point where it no longer matters and the media have seemingly given up or been complicit in questioning their lies. It is really dangerous and as B1 said the hard of thinking are supporting them like they are their favourite football team. There is no rational thought, even when presented with the facts they are dismissed out of hand. Pointing out others lie is lazy it doesn’t change the massive shift acceptance of just accepting lies and ignoring facts. I hear it all the time on the radio regurgitated lies by callers fed by Farage and Boris and co that even when those views are torn to shreds by facts they still go away believing they are right!

Populism, anti-education and the distrust of experts is unbelievably stupid and dangerous. If you want to carry on pointing out Diane Abbot etc that doesn’t mean you’re adding balance it’s simply a side show, a distraction from the most depressing aspects of a politics in the UK and abroad.

Rem: Abbott,

She may be consistent in her views but no one can get her to say what her current views are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldokpo_0...ture=share
She is racist, a liar and hypocritical. Admittedly, she lies by omission or obfuscation mostly.
https://youtu.be/J3WGdJ1PkXE

Like her lover,Jeremy, she is a terrorist sympathiser.
https://youtu.be/IK_pi5Si-sU
Tell me she wouldn’t be a catastrophic disaster as a Home Secretary.

Clegg didn’t just get into bed, he went against a promise to vote against tuition fees and reneged on that promise. ( and poor old Ziz gets hammered every post for going back on a promise.) He lied.
Jezza. Lifelong supporter of nuclear disarmament (or at leat the West’s) but the last labour manifesto included support for Trident.
That manifesto also included a promise to scrap tuition fees and even reinstate student grants but post election he admitted that wasn’t “actually “ a firm commitment. As he didn’t know the true figures.So, he lied. He also inferred that
Labour would abolish existing student debt but when pointed out it would cost around £8 billion he claimed he said he would “deal with it by trying to reduce the burden of it.” Lie. He was simply conning the young voters with false promises, something he is at again with promising to scrap the age differential in the Living Wage. Corbyn claimed the manifesto was “ Fully costed”. Turns out that an eMail exists, sent prior to the manifesto’s launch, that some costings were “implausible or entirely absent”. Again, false promises; lies.
Isn’t all this part of your supposed original argument re ‘popularism’? Corbyn et al are also “indulging in this ludicrous popularism”.
I do, incidentally, agree with the nub of your point, the trend towards abandoning substance and more worryingly the apparent gullibility of the electorate to swallow the guff spouted, is a tad concerning.
Your bias, or I may say, often bile, just jars at times.
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