These Environmental nutters

[Duffers]

Lots of white MCW who can afford green energy?

You were lied to by a bus, weren’t you?

[Morley]

Lots of white MCW who can afford green energy?

Afford green energy? Offshore wind and solar are dirt cheap, cheaper than nuclear, coal and oil and comparable to natural gas. The only obstruction is nimbyism and a lack of government investment to offset the lack of private sector demand.

So very wrong, wind and solar don't work well enough to supply anywhere near enough energy to replace coal, gas and nuclear. There was a very good study done by the IMechE that looked into this, either our devices that use power need to become around 1000% more efficient or the future is bleak.

[Tom Joad]

Lots of white MCW who can afford green energy?

Afford green energy? Offshore wind and solar are dirt cheap, cheaper than nuclear, coal and oil and comparable to natural gas. The only obstruction is nimbyism and a lack of government investment to offset the lack of private sector demand.

This. When the Cameron government stopped subsidies for Solar energy, many top engineers went to Germany where they were in demand. Yet our government gives a green light to fracking. This type of thing is a great example of just how shortsighted our politicians are.
 Like it or not, we have to start somewhere. (And yes, I drive cars and vans, heat my home and fly abroad at times).  I think that is all the more reason to start watching my carbon footprint.

[DemonicBaggie]

Fortunately, lots of people who care about the planet's future, which at this moment is looking decidedly bleak. The political establishment and the corporations would prefer everyone to look the other way, of course. Brexit will seem like a pleasurable wank compared to the ecological shitstorm that's brewing.

[Borin' Baggie]

Lots of white MCW who can afford green energy?

Afford green energy? Offshore wind and solar are dirt cheap, cheaper than nuclear, coal and oil and comparable to natural gas. The only obstruction is nimbyism and a lack of government investment to offset the lack of private sector demand.

So very wrong, wind and solar don't work well enough to supply anywhere near enough energy to replace coal, gas and nuclear. There was a very good study done by the IMechE that looked into this, either our devices that use power need to become around 1000% more efficient or the future is bleak.

It's not wrong, solar and wind have a lower price per kWh than all but natural gas plants. The problem arises from their use as a baseline for power generation due to their inconsistency but that's a different argument to green energy and the problems with that stem from public perception of nuclear generators and the lack of investment into them. The only problems with getting them widely adopted are due to the lack of investment into large scale plants and nimbyism. People don't realise how expensive coal and oil power generation is and new nuclear reactors cost billions.

As an aside, I'm pro nuclear and I wish our government and the German government were looking at the French way of generating power and Canadian research into the fission sector (thorium and feeder reactors specifically). In an ideal world we'd have as many fission reactors as France to provide a very solid baseline and more offshore wind plants to provide flexibility.

[Black Lake Victoria]

So Thatcher was right in closing the pits then......visionary?

[Cheshire East Baggie]

No-one looks at the whole picture.

Electric cars are super eco-friendly. But how clean is the electricity? How efficient is the transmission of electricity around the country?

Off-shore wind power is dirt cheap. Is it? The construction costs are immense. The volume of concrete consumed is breath-taking. And production of cement is a serious polluter.

Someone was on the radio the other day talking about a new coating for paper that makes plastic cups unnecessary. This product is derived from sand. So you didn't hear about the chronic world shortage of sand, which takes centuries to produce? Have a look at Google Earth and see the massive holes all over our country and every other where we are digging the stuff out.

What's needed is moderation and common sense. Toughening up the Building Regs for new-builds to a Scandinavian standard of insulation. Compulsory improvement of existing properties, funded by the taxpayer if necessary. Complete ban on gas-guzzling relics - 50+mpg is achievable so easily nowadays but there are still twats in cars that do 20mpg. This includes "white van man" as well - no more hiding behind the "got to encourage small businesses" excuse. Enable people to be eco-friendly and make them pay what it costs to deliver.

OK, I know we will never have a UK government with any balls, or with a credible energy policy. But gluing yourself to a train will not help you to win the argument.

And while I'm on a rant, why do the British people think that you need to fell all of the trees? There were twelve 300 year old oaks around the crossroads where we live 12 years ago. 8 have now gone. I paid £3000 to have the one in my garden made safe after Storm Doris broke a chunk off it. The local council ordered me to fell it, every tree surgeon except one refused to just tidy it up. Trees play a hugely important part in the whole eco-balance. So why is it OK to just tear them down? Eh?

[Tom Joad]

No-one looks at the whole picture.

Electric cars are super eco-friendly. But how clean is the electricity? How efficient is the transmission of electricity around the country?

Off-shore wind power is dirt cheap. Is it? The construction costs are immense. The volume of concrete consumed is breath-taking. And production of cement is a serious polluter.

Someone was on the radio the other day talking about a new coating for paper that makes plastic cups unnecessary. This product is derived from sand. So you didn't hear about the chronic world shortage of sand, which takes centuries to produce? Have a look at Google Earth and see the massive holes all over our country and every other where we are digging the stuff out.

What's needed is moderation and common sense. Toughening up the Building Regs for new-builds to a Scandinavian standard of insulation. Compulsory improvement of existing properties, funded by the taxpayer if necessary. Complete ban on gas-guzzling relics - 50+mpg is achievable so easily nowadays but there are still twats in cars that do 20mpg. This includes "white van man" as well - no more hiding behind the "got to encourage small businesses" excuse. Enable people to be eco-friendly and make them pay what it costs to deliver.

OK, I know we will never have a UK government with any balls, or with a credible energy policy. But gluing yourself to a train will not help you to win the argument.

And while I'm on a rant, why do the British people think that you need to fell all of the trees? There were twelve 300 year old oaks around the crossroads where we live 12 years ago. 8 have now gone. I paid £3000 to have the one in my garden made safe after Storm Doris broke a chunk off it. The local council ordered me to fell it, every tree surgeon except one refused to just tidy it up. Trees play a hugely important part in the whole eco-balance. So why is it OK to just tear them down? Eh?

So, you basically agree then?
 While we're on it though, gas guzzlers and white vans will die a natural death without this "scrappage" procedure. That's just an aid to consumerism. It is far worse for the environment to keep changing vehicles every five minutes and throwing the old ones away.  And no one has satisfactorily explained to me what we do with the expired electric vehicle batteries. We need to be careful we don't exchange one problem for another.

[Borin' Baggie]

No-one looks at the whole picture.

Electric cars are super eco-friendly. But how clean is the electricity? How efficient is the transmission of electricity around the country?

Off-shore wind power is dirt cheap. Is it? The construction costs are immense. The volume of concrete consumed is breath-taking. And production of cement is a serious polluter.

Someone was on the radio the other day talking about a new coating for paper that makes plastic cups unnecessary. This product is derived from sand. So you didn't hear about the chronic world shortage of sand, which takes centuries to produce? Have a look at Google Earth and see the massive holes all over our country and every other where we are digging the stuff out.

What's needed is moderation and common sense. Toughening up the Building Regs for new-builds to a Scandinavian standard of insulation. Compulsory improvement of existing properties, funded by the taxpayer if necessary. Complete ban on gas-guzzling relics - 50+mpg is achievable so easily nowadays but there are still twats in cars that do 20mpg. This includes "white van man" as well - no more hiding behind the "got to encourage small businesses" excuse. Enable people to be eco-friendly and make them pay what it costs to deliver.

OK, I know we will never have a UK government with any balls, or with a credible energy policy. But gluing yourself to a train will not help you to win the argument.

And while I'm on a rant, why do the British people think that you need to fell all of the trees? There were twelve 300 year old oaks around the crossroads where we live 12 years ago. 8 have now gone. I paid £3000 to have the one in my garden made safe after Storm Doris broke a chunk off it. The local council ordered me to fell it, every tree surgeon except one refused to just tidy it up. Trees play a hugely important part in the whole eco-balance. So why is it OK to just tear them down? Eh?

So, you basically agree then?
 While we're on it though, gas guzzlers and white vans will die a natural death without this "scrappage" procedure. That's just an aid to consumerism. It is far worse for the environment to keep changing vehicles every five minutes and throwing the old ones away.  And no one has satisfactorily explained to me what we do with the expired electric vehicle batteries. We need to be careful we don't exchange one problem for another.

Vehicle batteries should be fine, they're big and bulky. People will naturally be inclined to recycle them either through manually changing them or going to a garage. The bigger issue is smaller appliances like phones that have the same technology but are easier to just chuck them in the bin.

[Morley]

Lots of white MCW who can afford green energy?

Afford green energy? Offshore wind and solar are dirt cheap, cheaper than nuclear, coal and oil and comparable to natural gas. The only obstruction is nimbyism and a lack of government investment to offset the lack of private sector demand.

So very wrong, wind and solar don't work well enough to supply anywhere near enough energy to replace coal, gas and nuclear. There was a very good study done by the IMechE that looked into this, either our devices that use power need to become around 1000% more efficient or the future is bleak.

It's not wrong, solar and wind have a lower price per kWh than all but natural gas plants. The problem arises from their use as a baseline for power generation due to their inconsistency but that's a different argument to green energy and the problems with that stem from public perception of nuclear generators and the lack of investment into them. The only problems with getting them widely adopted are due to the lack of investment into large scale plants and nimbyism. People don't realise how expensive coal and oil power generation is and new nuclear reactors cost billions.

As an aside, I'm pro nuclear and I wish our government and the German government were looking at the French way of generating power and Canadian research into the fission sector (thorium and feeder reactors specifically). In an ideal world we'd have as many fission reactors as France to provide a very solid baseline and more offshore wind plants to provide flexibility.

To get anywhere near enough energy from renewables we would have to cover most of the usable land in the UK with a mix of solar, wind and wave.  That also assumes we cut our expenditure at the same time.  Where does the food come from now, we would have to import it all, this just pushes the emissions somewhere else.  

Have a read here http://www.withouthotair.com/Contents.html

A solution requires significant investment into new technologies in both power gen and lower energy consumption (which means more taxes, no one votes for that).  Also a reduction in our expectations is required, no new phone every 24 months, no plane flights on holiday 2x a year.