I was a strong Brexiteer. Now we must swallow our pride and think again
#11
(04-12-2019, 07:34 AM)Sunshine Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Absolutely.

The contempt that remainers have for the majority of our fellow citizens is breathtaking.

Stupid and or racist for having the temerity to vote to leave. There's no need for a second referendum but if they campaigned calling us stupid and racist it would be a wider victory margin to leave.

What about the contempt shown towards Remainers? The referendum result was 52%-48%. 700,000 swing the other way and the result would have been different. Fact is, the views of 48% of the country  (maybe more now) are being ignored by a small group of zealots in the House of Commons. Plenty of Remainers are reconciled to the fact the UK are leaving and only concern now is to avoid a destructive hard Brexit. If the ERG had compromised like the rest of us have, you might have got your wish now.
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#12
People: *vote for something stupid because they were told to by bastards*

3 years pass with it becoming abundantly clear why it's so utterly stupid, Some people point this out.

People: *How dare anyone suggest that I've done something stupid!! The arrogance! I'd vote for the stupid thing again if I could!*

Me: *smacks head against wall*
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#13
(04-12-2019, 08:16 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 07:50 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Pretty sure that statistically those that voted remain were, younger, better educated and were less concerned with immigration. Just because something was more popular doesn’t mean it was correct.

‘The people decided to leave’ Some people did some didn’t either find a compromise or rubber stamp the decision to leave with a second vote now we actually all know (those that want to listen) the implications of Brexit. Why, if Brexiteers are so convinced of their argument do they not wish to give the country a second referendum?
I’m pretty sure that younger doesn’t mean wiser, better educated doesn’t equate to more common sense or intelligence and not being concerned about immigration ignores the issues of: pressure on housing, health services, utilities and education. It ignores our finite water resources and green spaces, which are disappearing under tones of concrete daily. We have predictions of power shortfalls. You may think that increasing the population of this small island by one million every three years is sustainable, I beg to differ.
Derek, I think using phrases such as “Those that chose to listen” smacks of arrogance. It says ‘those that do not agree with me are blinkered and or stupid. (Other views are available you know)
As for being against a second referendum and being “... so convinced of their argument...” . Can I just point out it took over forty years to get the real second ‘people’s vote ‘. If those lovers of the un democratic, wasteful, corrupt European Union and it’s self serving, arrogant, virtual politburo leaders, were so convinced of their arguments why did it take that long?

You do realise that the figure you are quoting is the total net migration and not the EU migration figures. 250k pa are from outside the EU. How exactly is leaving the EU going to solve your problem of our green spaces?
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#14
(04-12-2019, 08:16 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 07:50 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Pretty sure that statistically those that voted remain were, younger, better educated and were less concerned with immigration. Just because something was more popular doesn’t mean it was correct.

‘The people decided to leave’ Some people did some didn’t either find a compromise or rubber stamp the decision to leave with a second vote now we actually all know (those that want to listen) the implications of Brexit. Why, if Brexiteers are so convinced of their argument do they not wish to give the country a second referendum?
I’m pretty sure that younger doesn’t mean wiser, better educated doesn’t equate to more common sense or intelligence and not being concerned about immigration ignores the issues of: pressure on housing, health services, utilities and education. It ignores our finite water resources and green spaces, which are disappearing under tones of concrete daily. We have predictions of power shortfalls. You may think that increasing the population of this small island by one million every three years is sustainable, I beg to differ.
Derek, I think using phrases such as “Those that chose to listen” smacks of arrogance. It says ‘those that do not agree with me are blinkered and or stupid. (Other views are available you know)
As for being against a second referendum and being “... so convinced of their argument...” . Can I just point out it took over forty years to get the real second ‘people’s vote ‘. If those lovers of the un democratic, wasteful, corrupt European Union and it’s self serving, arrogant, virtual politburo leaders, were so convinced of their arguments why did it take that long?

Just because someone had lived longer does not automatically make them wiser or have more common sense. The fact more professionals voted remain is a good indicator or which side of the argiment has more credence. 

I’d rather have an influx of hard working, well educated EU nationals looking to contribute to the country financially and socially than thousands of not millions of lazy, indigenous families who haven’t worked for generations and blame anyone different from them as the cause of their own failures. 

Over population is a problem for the whole world, and unless there is some cap on how many children are allowed per family that won’t change. The other side of that argument is we don’t have enough young people to look after an increasingly old and infirm population. I don’t see many of those British long term unemployed stepping up to do the dirty or difficult jobs. Or paying taxes to support those jobs, remember EU nationals who live here are net contributors. They aren’t the problem they are the scapegoats that wankers like Farage and co used to create this clusterfuck that is Brexit.

(04-12-2019, 08:35 AM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote: People: *vote for something stupid because they were told to by bastards*

3 years pass with it becoming abundantly clear why it's so utterly stupid, Some people point this out.

People: *How dare anyone suggest that I've done something stupid!! The arrogance! I'd vote for the stupid thing again if I could!*

Me: *smacks head against wall*

Arf Wink
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#15
If the result had been 52 / 48 in favour of remain what steps would you believe the Government would have taken to find a compromise on remaining?
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#16
(04-12-2019, 08:57 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If the result had been 52 / 48 in favour of remain what steps would you believe the Government would have taken to find a compromise on remaining?

Is that a genuine question? Remaining is pretty straight forward, I would guess that a lot of people that voted leave hadn't considered the requirement for a hard border in Northern Ireland and other complications that arise. 

If you asked the majority of folk in the UK if they wanted to keep free movement of trade and goods then I would guess that they would say yes, however without the free movement of people as well the EU would never agree to that - No matter how hard a stance we took "That'll show em".

There are many permutations for leaving and I guess that is what the second referendum should consider - how many people want to leave without a deal. My gut feeling is that would be around 30% of the vote, but why not find out - I'd be happy to be proved wrong.


If you were offered a deal where the following applied:
- No extra political integration with the EU to the current status
- have a period where we could restrict the migration from the EU
- reduced child benefit payments to non-UK citizens
- no out of work benefits for non-UK citizens
- no propping up Eurozone countries
- targets to reduce 'red-tape' burdens

Knowing what you know now after the last 3 years of discussion would you vote for that?
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#17
(04-12-2019, 07:34 AM)Sunshine Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Absolutely.

The contempt that remainers have for the majority of our fellow citizens is breathtaking.

Stupid and or racist for having the temerity to vote to leave. There's no need for a second referendum but if they campaigned calling us stupid and racist it would be a wider victory margin to leave.

I'm sorry but this is utter bollocks.

My kind are accused of being 'Remoaners', 'traitors' and 'enemies of democracy' on a regular basis for just expressing opinions.

Every time I try to reason with a Brexiteer I get the same shit - 'Brexit means Brexit' (WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?), 'You lost - get over it' (Hardly going to do anything but breed contempt really?), 'I don't listen to experts because Wayne in the pub told me its project fear - LETS GO WTO!'

You're right that all Brexiteers cannot be named as thick racist morons, but when my kind are treated with such contempt and the other side just lie or produce meaningless slogans, it becomes harder and harder not to put 2 and 2 together to make 4.
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#18
(04-12-2019, 08:42 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 08:16 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 07:50 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Pretty sure that statistically those that voted remain were, younger, better educated and were less concerned with immigration. Just because something was more popular doesn’t mean it was correct.

‘The people decided to leave’ Some people did some didn’t either find a compromise or rubber stamp the decision to leave with a second vote now we actually all know (those that want to listen) the implications of Brexit. Why, if Brexiteers are so convinced of their argument do they not wish to give the country a second referendum?
I’m pretty sure that younger doesn’t mean wiser, better educated doesn’t equate to more common sense or intelligence and not being concerned about immigration ignores the issues of: pressure on housing, health services, utilities and education. It ignores our finite water resources and green spaces, which are disappearing under tones of concrete daily. We have predictions of power shortfalls. You may think that increasing the population of this small island by one million every three years is sustainable, I beg to differ.
Derek, I think using phrases such as “Those that chose to listen” smacks of arrogance. It says ‘those that do not agree with me are blinkered and or stupid. (Other views are available you know)
As for being against a second referendum and being “... so convinced of their argument...” . Can I just point out it took over forty years to get the real second ‘people’s vote ‘. If those lovers of the un democratic, wasteful, corrupt European Union and it’s self serving, arrogant, virtual politburo leaders, were so convinced of their arguments why did it take that long?

You do realise that the figure you are quoting is the total net migration and not the EU migration figures. 250k pa are from outside the EU. How exactly is leaving the EU going to solve your problem of our green spaces?


Wasting your time B1. They won't accept that so many of the problems we face as a country is a failure of domestic policy. There's going to be a lot of disappointed people in a few years time.
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#19
(04-12-2019, 12:08 PM)chasetownbaggie Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 08:42 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 08:16 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 07:50 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Pretty sure that statistically those that voted remain were, younger, better educated and were less concerned with immigration. Just because something was more popular doesn’t mean it was correct.

‘The people decided to leave’ Some people did some didn’t either find a compromise or rubber stamp the decision to leave with a second vote now we actually all know (those that want to listen) the implications of Brexit. Why, if Brexiteers are so convinced of their argument do they not wish to give the country a second referendum?
I’m pretty sure that younger doesn’t mean wiser, better educated doesn’t equate to more common sense or intelligence and not being concerned about immigration ignores the issues of: pressure on housing, health services, utilities and education. It ignores our finite water resources and green spaces, which are disappearing under tones of concrete daily. We have predictions of power shortfalls. You may think that increasing the population of this small island by one million every three years is sustainable, I beg to differ.
Derek, I think using phrases such as “Those that chose to listen” smacks of arrogance. It says ‘those that do not agree with me are blinkered and or stupid. (Other views are available you know)
As for being against a second referendum and being “... so convinced of their argument...” . Can I just point out it took over forty years to get the real second ‘people’s vote ‘. If those lovers of the un democratic, wasteful, corrupt European Union and it’s self serving, arrogant, virtual politburo leaders, were so convinced of their arguments why did it take that long?

You do realise that the figure you are quoting is the total net migration and not the EU migration figures. 250k pa are from outside the EU. How exactly is leaving the EU going to solve your problem of our green spaces?


Wasting your time B1. They won't accept that so many of the problems we face as a country is a failure of domestic policy. There's going to be a lot of disappointed people in a few years time.

STOP BEING ARROGANT AND CONDESCENDING REMOANER.








Even though all of the facts point to you being right.
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#20
(04-12-2019, 12:39 PM)Winst_Baggie Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 12:08 PM)chasetownbaggie Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 08:42 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 08:16 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 07:50 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Pretty sure that statistically those that voted remain were, younger, better educated and were less concerned with immigration. Just because something was more popular doesn’t mean it was correct.

‘The people decided to leave’ Some people did some didn’t either find a compromise or rubber stamp the decision to leave with a second vote now we actually all know (those that want to listen) the implications of Brexit. Why, if Brexiteers are so convinced of their argument do they not wish to give the country a second referendum?
I’m pretty sure that younger doesn’t mean wiser, better educated doesn’t equate to more common sense or intelligence and not being concerned about immigration ignores the issues of: pressure on housing, health services, utilities and education. It ignores our finite water resources and green spaces, which are disappearing under tones of concrete daily. We have predictions of power shortfalls. You may think that increasing the population of this small island by one million every three years is sustainable, I beg to differ.
Derek, I think using phrases such as “Those that chose to listen” smacks of arrogance. It says ‘those that do not agree with me are blinkered and or stupid. (Other views are available you know)
As for being against a second referendum and being “... so convinced of their argument...” . Can I just point out it took over forty years to get the real second ‘people’s vote ‘. If those lovers of the un democratic, wasteful, corrupt European Union and it’s self serving, arrogant, virtual politburo leaders, were so convinced of their arguments why did it take that long?

You do realise that the figure you are quoting is the total net migration and not the EU migration figures. 250k pa are from outside the EU. How exactly is leaving the EU going to solve your problem of our green spaces?


Wasting your time B1. They won't accept that so many of the problems we face as a country is a failure of domestic policy. There's going to be a lot of disappointed people in a few years time.

STOP BEING ARROGANT AND CONDESCENDING REMOANER.








Even though all of the facts point to you being right.


The thing is the net immigration won't go down even if we do leave. The Asia and Pacific/commonwealth countries will more than swell the immigration figures once any new rules are in place. So all those leavers who wanted to leave to stop people coming in will be very sorely disappointed. I mean you've got to be a little dumb not to realise that if the planet is gaining a billion people a decade the local population may also increase as well regardless of immigration.

(04-12-2019, 08:57 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If the result had been 52 / 48 in favour of remain what steps would you believe the Government would have taken to find a compromise on remaining?

Well we wouldn't have wasted billions trying to get out, put all home policy on hold, lose hand over fist many multi-national companies from our shores, reduced our trading power and generally become a laughing stock. 

We would have remained. But there's no doubt there would have been some need for reform - as the EU now recognises - when Cameron went to Brussels he went without really trying to get some compromises because he thought the referendum would be a done deal for remain. His arrogance cost the country.

The fact is that many people who voted leave were duped by Gove, Boris and co about the benefits. They hadn't a clue. You voted for lies and guess what you've had a process full of lies and selfishness. Thankfully there are some still fighting to stop this shitfest - I mean who wouldn't want to stop it after hearing May come back from Brussels this week and announce she's got another 6 months to get HER deal through, how arrogant, selfish and incompetent do you have to be.
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