I was a strong Brexiteer. Now we must swallow our pride and think again
#1
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendem...ink-again/


Ardent Brexiteer taking some sense...
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#2
James O’Brien interviewed him this morning and I was quite astonished by what he said. Oborne has completely reversed his position and has admitted that things have completely changed in the 3 years  since the referendum focusing particularly on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and on WTO which has been very much diminished by the USA and China and is no longer the same organisation with the influence that it once had.  To continue with Brexit will be an error of gigantic proportions and the very fact that the ERG and their fellow travellers are doubling down and talking about leaving the EU without a deal shows what a bunch of dangerous lunatics they are.
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#3
(04-08-2019, 03:55 PM)Pontificator Wrote: James O’Brien interviewed him this morning and I was quite astonished by what he said. Oborne has completely reversed his position and has admitted that things have completely changed in the 3 years  since the referendum focusing particularly on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and on WTO which has been very much diminished by the USA and China and is no longer the same organisation with the influence that it once had.  To continue with Brexit will be an error of gigantic proportions and the very fact that the ERG and their fellow travellers are doubling down and talking about leaving the EU without a deal shows what a bunch of dangerous lunatics they are.

They appeal to the thousands of Mark Francois types across the country. Very worrying as Boris’s bluster, Mogg’s eccentricity and Farage’s populism hide their self serving, conniving intellect with the gullible only too happy lap up the shit fed to them.
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#4
What doesn't seem to have happened much in the media is a thorough effort to speak to leavers and find out the key issues for them. I will suggest that immigration is a key one and possibly the most important. If this is the case, maybe the politicians could have spent 2 years talking with other EU countries to change the rules on immigration and save us from all this farce. A few tweaks and changes to what the EU is all about would have avoided this mess and yet it seems Cameron is the only one to have half heartedly tried this approach some years ago.
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#5
(04-11-2019, 01:18 PM)FenlandBoing Wrote: What doesn't seem to have happened much in the media is a thorough effort to speak to leavers and find out the key issues for them. I will suggest that immigration is a key one and possibly the most important. If this is the case, maybe the politicians could have spent 2 years talking with other EU countries to change the rules on immigration and save us from all this farce. A few tweaks and changes to what the EU is all about would have avoided this mess and yet it seems Cameron is the only one to have half heartedly tried this approach some years ago.

Agree with that FB - this is where it makes me smile when the 'Project Fear' line is pushed out. It was exactly project fear from Farage and his mob that started this. Pictures of Syrian refugees in long lines at the borders, or threats that all of Turkey was about to be able to come and take our jobs were being spouted without any substance. 

This whole mess needs to get some clarity about what people wanted and that being dealt with rather than a completely nebulous leave campaign. It's clear now that staying and dealing with the focused issues would have been much simpler.
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#6
The UK economy is 2.5 per cent smaller than it would be if Britain had voted to remain in the European Union. The knock-on hit to the public finances is £19 billion per annum – or £360 million a week. The latest update of the Centre for European Reform’s cost of Brexit calculation, which covers the period from the referendum to the fourth quarter of 2018 shows a slight increase compared to our third quarter estimate, which put the cost at 2.3 per cent.
https://cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-dece...ve-decline

Folk who voted leave were conned. Psychologically it is a very difficult thing to admit that you've been conned so doubling down and praying silently that it all goes away is a default position for many. Other leavers were racists. Leave leaders and their supporters were/are snake oil salesmen and/or lunatics.
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#7
If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.
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#8
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Absolutely.

The contempt that remainers have for the majority of our fellow citizens is breathtaking.

Stupid and or racist for having the temerity to vote to leave. There's no need for a second referendum but if they campaigned calling us stupid and racist it would be a wider victory margin to leave.
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#9
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Pretty sure that statistically those that voted remain were, younger, better educated and were less concerned with immigration. Just because something was more popular doesn’t mean it was correct.

‘The people decided to leave’ Some people did some didn’t either find a compromise or rubber stamp the decision to leave with a second vote now we actually all know (those that want to listen) the implications of Brexit. Why, if Brexiteers are so convinced of their argument do they not wish to give the country a second referendum?
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#10
(04-12-2019, 07:50 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 06:12 AM)boingingjim Wrote: If ever a thread shows why leave won this is it.

Pretty sure that statistically those that voted remain were, younger, better educated and were less concerned with immigration. Just because something was more popular doesn’t mean it was correct.

‘The people decided to leave’ Some people did some didn’t either find a compromise or rubber stamp the decision to leave with a second vote now we actually all know (those that want to listen) the implications of Brexit. Why, if Brexiteers are so convinced of their argument do they not wish to give the country a second referendum?
I’m pretty sure that younger doesn’t mean wiser, better educated doesn’t equate to more common sense or intelligence and not being concerned about immigration ignores the issues of: pressure on housing, health services, utilities and education. It ignores our finite water resources and green spaces, which are disappearing under tones of concrete daily. We have predictions of power shortfalls. You may think that increasing the population of this small island by one million every three years is sustainable, I beg to differ.
Derek, I think using phrases such as “Those that chose to listen” smacks of arrogance. It says ‘those that do not agree with me are blinkered and or stupid. (Other views are available you know)
As for being against a second referendum and being “... so convinced of their argument...” . Can I just point out it took over forty years to get the real second ‘people’s vote ‘. If those lovers of the un democratic, wasteful, corrupt European Union and it’s self serving, arrogant, virtual politburo leaders, were so convinced of their arguments why did it take that long?
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