Poll: Pen or no pen?
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Pen
36.51%
23 36.51%
No pen
63.49%
40 63.49%
Total 63 vote(s) 100%
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Pen or no pen?
#41
No pen - they're all suspended in mid air with Jenkins.
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#42
(03-08-2019, 11:14 AM)Statto Wrote: I agree that VAR will creep ever deeper, changing the sport, increasing the tension for TV viewers and advertising potential for broadcasters. A few drinks and "the day" are important, but that moment of exhilaration when the ball hits the net is the drug inside the ground. It will ruin it for stadium spectators by killing that, but the broadcasters don't care as long as they make their bucks. They promised a 'whole new ball game' and are delivering that.

With VAR, Leeds first goal would rightly have been disallowed for the offside player running across the flight of the ball in front of SJ.  That incredible atmosphere and what Leeds fans are regarding as a truly special night may have been stopped in its tracks. Imagine Livermore's goal being correctly disallowed against Spurs because he was offside.

Regarding the United decision, it was a nailed on penalty for me. The argument that the incident should only be reviewed in real time is ridiculous IMHO. The slo-mo and stills are revealing. The defender sees the shot coming and puts his arm out first, before the ball is struck. He's anticipating the shot, puts his arm out, then jumps and turns as the shot has been hit. Even though he may have been protecting himself, but he knew what he was doing, making it deliberate.

His reaction was telling. Head in hands. Didn't look like a victim of gross injustice, but someone who knew he had been caught out.

Incorrect decisions are part and parcel and should be left alone, but money talks. The stakes are too high. The reality is that we'll just end up arguing about inconsistencies in VAR interpretation instead, as proved by this thread.

If he knew what he was doing and it was deliberate, why would he deliberately put his arm onto a shot that was heading for the planet Jupiter? He'd have to be a complete nutter to give the ref a decision to make, when no one really knows which way any particular ref is going to go.

On VAR I agree with every word you've said. It'll kill that moment of euphoria that for me has been the thing that keeps me going back, that most ridiculous high that you get when an important goal goes flying in.

For the neutral TV viewer who isn't as emotionally attached, VAR adds to the tension and the excitement, but on the pitch and in the stands, it will kill that instant celebration when the ball hits the net.

It's aimed at the millions of TV glory hunting big team fans, and will be used as such. It won't be any use to the likes of me and thee. As I've said before, when Atkinson's reffing our matches, I won't be able to celebrate a goal fully til I get home.
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#43
In my opinion he put his arm out to block it because he's a fanny and was protecting himself. That makes it a deliberate action to put the arm out there before the shot, away from his body, which meant he ran the risk. I don't buy the version that his arm was by his side. It clearly wasn't.

Why would he do it? Why would a defender or keeper fly in and make a stupid challenge when a player is going away from goal or to the bye-line? Players do inexplicable things every week.
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#44
(03-08-2019, 08:25 AM)CA Baggie Wrote:
(03-07-2019, 10:26 AM)Pickle Rick Wrote:
(03-07-2019, 10:20 AM)CA Baggie Wrote: Clear and obvious error? Nope.

Put simply - had it not been given no one would have commented on it being hand ball.

How long before clever players, when close up to a defender, deliberately flick the ball up to hit an arm and then draw a square with their fingers?

There is the game changing option to use var isn't there? 
I know what you are saying but if players knows the ref will give them the benefit of the doubt then clever plsyers will always jump with arms out and have that option for blocking that way 'accidentally'. The player has to have his arms out of the way or he could be doing it deliberately - how would the ref know.

It only became “game changing” when var got involved.  The shot that hit the back of his elbow was destined for the stands.

I accept that some players deliberately make themselves bigger when attempting to block shots and the ref should award penalties when arms/hands are in an unnatural position.  This is the grey area, I didn’t think his arms were in an unnatural position.

What you seem to be saying is that players are no longer able to charge a shot down etc.  They can only stand, run and jump with their arms strictly by their sides?  

It’s like the “contact in the box therefore entitle to go down” argument.  The ball will sometimes unintentionally hit and arm that doesn’t make it a penalty.  There has to be a certain degree of context and interpretation, VAR doesn’t give that it just gives factual evidence of did it hit the arm or not.

No one involved with that game would have complained about a penalty not being given.  And certainly not before var.  

it’s changing the game and not for the better.  Had the shot come from a throw in awarded the wrong way then how long before there’s a demand for it to be taken back to that decision?  This search for the “right decision” is a fools gold.  It can only exist if every decision from the kick off is reviewed along with every tackle made.

This is consistently the point I make about VAR and it's one those who insist "but the right decision was made" completely miss. VAR will lead to to the loss of everything being a football fan is about. Someone today who was defending it said they hate it when ex-players look at incidents and say "there wasn't enough in that" as it means an offence was committed and it should have been given. But the reason pros say that is because they know the game inside out and understand the context. If we're just going to interpret a rule book literally, we may as well not bother kicking off as there'll be offences committed pretty much every minute. I think the querying of which way a throw in should have gone is EXACTLY what will happen before long. The awarding of corners will also be up for debate as, let's face it, sometimes it's very hard to tell who exactly a ball came off. So there'll be a delay while someone has a look at replays. Magic. Do you know what? I think I'll just go with the fact sometimes we get the rub of the green, sometimes we don't.
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#45
(03-08-2019, 04:20 PM)Pickle Rick Wrote: Well plenty were calling for VAR and we have it in some games for good or ill. But the call was correct I think and UEFA have explained it and backed it - the player was at fault. The picture is fairly damming too and hardly natural.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47495707

How do work out it wasn't natural FFS. He's got his back to the ball and his arm isn't sticking out purposely to stop the ball. Nobody doubts it hit his hand, but that pic probably confirms moreso that it was accidental.
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