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Strip away the parachute payments
#11
(11-08-2018, 02:07 PM)CA Baggie Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 01:30 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 01:23 PM)Bratislava Baggie Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 10:53 AM)Gewonenzow Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 10:07 AM)Pneumann Wrote: and how much are we worth? 

Wigan just went for 22 million. If we don't go up by the end of next season our owner will have lost mebbes 200 fat fish.

This might be relevant for those claiming the owner doesn't care what division we're in.

People really need to understand. It isn’t about what the club is worth to Lai, it’s about what the club’s brand was worth to him in China.

He’s hardly going to be focusing on £100m in broadcast rights income, which will end up being reinvested in the club anyway, when there’s £100b worth of town planning contracts at stake and the Chinese government have suddenly decided to stop liking football.

Wim fucked.

Exactly this, he wanted and bought the academy and the way we nurture local talent to be able to used in China.
The club was an add on

He spent nearly £200m to gain insight into how our academy operates so he could replicate it in China? I doubt the Chinese state are that impressed by the seal of approval our badge gives him when he’s tendering for another eco town.

At the time and reading about this hadn’t the Chinese government said they wanted to win the World Cup by 2050?

The Palm plan was to build eco towns and for all these towns to have football academies and good facilities.  A PL badge and name on these academies, together with coaching knowledge etc would look great during the tendering process.  As a bi-product of this we may have gained a following in China from these new communities/towns with this link.


We are/were a means to an end to help Palm win these contracts and I suspect no more than a sunk cost now.

Obviously this could be wrong and he bought the club because of our tour of China etc. and I’m sure as a multi- billionaire he’ll do all he can to financially support the club back to the PL and become a mainstay at that level....

Dekka I thought it was you that lived in the real world and had a cynicism, mixed with a dose of realism, to match.  If the eco-town route is dead then Lai has no real reason to give a monkey’s toss about us.  Of course he would obviously prefer us to be a PL side to hold some value,  clearly not enough to consider offering a penny or Yuan to aide us in getting back there though.

Absent, uninterested owners never ends well for a football club, the best we can thank him for is not promising monies that were never going to arrive and us carrying on the JP thrift model will see us better than the harder times some clubs who overspent have had.  We play Ipswich in a few weeks, if you hold up a mirror we may appear in the reflection.

I am a realist I don't think I'm a cynic because I'd like to think that there was more to our current owner buying the club than merely a vehicle for his domestic affairs. I'd like to think that the two can / could work in tandem without damaging the other. The realist in me knows we are and to some extent Lai is at the mercy of his governments decisions. I also remember JP saying he wanted to sell to an owner who operated the club as he had done. Now I'd rather believe that Lai is trying to operate the club as a successful business, making mistakes along the way but has been hampered somewhat by the Chinese government curtailing investment in football clubs a few years ago. Wolves have got away with it because I believe Fosun business is too big / international and not constrained by Chinese red tape.

All the indications and evidence with regards to us bringing in a DoF and Head of Recruitment suggest we are trying to operate as we have done previously with Jenkins given the task of managing the very tricky tightrope of who and when we spend the parachute money to take us back up. I don't believe for one minute that the owners want to manage the club into the ground as it suits no one. We may well end up having to survive on the scraps again (I'm not confident anymore we will go back up and not because of the squad but more how it is being utilised) but that will be just as much to do with the football department as the owner and Jenkins etc.
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#12
(11-08-2018, 04:56 PM)Remi_Moses Wrote: Selling would have it's problems - a big loss would be in the offing.
We have 40 million less in the bank and a 50 million drop in annual income and now bring a champ club
That would put the club worth at approx 80-90 million IMO approx half of what Lai paid.

Two choices on offer to Lai.....get us back up and box clever / make some cash to put in that bank or take the hit and fug off.
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#13
And in other imaginary news shape shifting lizards buy The Pie Factory.
There are 30 odd clubs of similar support to us, of which 10 or so at any given time are in the Prem.
We’ve lost 3 games out of 4 in November having been top six until now and a future scenario of matches v the likes of Bury is in some miserable heads. Unreal!
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#14
Re the loss of value. Lai spent 200M and it seemed an awful lot. Particularly as Villa hadn't too long ago been sold for 75-80M.

But when you think about the respective clubs;
While Villa were a basket case of lengthy contracts at unaffordable wages and various loans to previous owners, banks etc.
WBA turned a healthy profit while still paying our owner a salary worth a  fortune annually.  we have the freeholds in the safe to The Hawthorns,  the training ground and numerous properties in the West Midlands. Plus flexdown contracts to the players to protect our interests.

I don't claim to have seen any balance sheets but I would think that an asset stripping sale of club properties, added to further player sales, would give Mr.Lai a very big chunk of his money back. unless it's changes, we own a lot of land.   I really hope the appointments Derek mentioned, .  indicate this isn't in Lai's plans. I'm guessing we'll have an inkling when we negotiate this January's window.
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#15
January might not be as indicative as you hope. If we can't persuade quality to come then it'll be a quiet one of pant piss level loans etc. We won't spend on shit again.
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#16
(11-08-2018, 08:51 PM)Baggiejacko Wrote: January might not be as indicative as you hope. If we can't persuade quality to come then it'll be a quiet one of pant piss level loans etc. We won't spend on shit again.

But if we sell what we have, we'll guess which way it's going.
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#17
(11-08-2018, 08:51 PM)Baggiejacko Wrote: January might not be as indicative as you hope. If we can't persuade quality to come then it'll be a quiet one of pant piss level loans etc. We won't spend again.

We won't be spending Jenkins Xmas (Chadli) bonus.
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#18
I'll make The Samaritans aware of this thread.
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#19
(11-08-2018, 05:19 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 02:07 PM)CA Baggie Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 01:30 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 01:23 PM)Bratislava Baggie Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 10:53 AM)Gewonenzow Wrote: People really need to understand. It isn’t about what the club is worth to Lai, it’s about what the club’s brand was worth to him in China.

He’s hardly going to be focusing on £100m in broadcast rights income, which will end up being reinvested in the club anyway, when there’s £100b worth of town planning contracts at stake and the Chinese government have suddenly decided to stop liking football.

Wim fucked.

Exactly this, he wanted and bought the academy and the way we nurture local talent to be able to used in China.
The club was an add on

He spent nearly £200m to gain insight into how our academy operates so he could replicate it in China? I doubt the Chinese state are that impressed by the seal of approval our badge gives him when he’s tendering for another eco town.

At the time and reading about this hadn’t the Chinese government said they wanted to win the World Cup by 2050?

The Palm plan was to build eco towns and for all these towns to have football academies and good facilities.  A PL badge and name on these academies, together with coaching knowledge etc would look great during the tendering process.  As a bi-product of this we may have gained a following in China from these new communities/towns with this link.


We are/were a means to an end to help Palm win these contracts and I suspect no more than a sunk cost now.

Obviously this could be wrong and he bought the club because of our tour of China etc. and I’m sure as a multi- billionaire he’ll do all he can to financially support the club back to the PL and become a mainstay at that level....

Dekka I thought it was you that lived in the real world and had a cynicism, mixed with a dose of realism, to match.  If the eco-town route is dead then Lai has no real reason to give a monkey’s toss about us.  Of course he would obviously prefer us to be a PL side to hold some value,  clearly not enough to consider offering a penny or Yuan to aide us in getting back there though.

Absent, uninterested owners never ends well for a football club, the best we can thank him for is not promising monies that were never going to arrive and us carrying on the JP thrift model will see us better than the harder times some clubs who overspent have had.  We play Ipswich in a few weeks, if you hold up a mirror we may appear in the reflection.

I am a realist I don't think I'm a cynic because I'd like to think that there was more to our current owner buying the club than merely a vehicle for his domestic affairs. I'd like to think that the two can / could work in tandem without damaging the other. The realist in me knows we are and to some extent Lai is at the mercy of his governments decisions. I also remember JP saying he wanted to sell to an owner who operated the club as he had done. Now I'd rather believe that Lai is trying to operate the club as a successful business, making mistakes along the way but has been hampered somewhat by the Chinese government curtailing investment in football clubs a few years ago. Wolves have got away with it because I believe Fosun business is too big / international and not constrained by Chinese red tape.

All the indications and evidence with regards to us bringing in a DoF and Head of Recruitment suggest we are trying to operate as we have done previously with Jenkins given the task of managing the very tricky tightrope of who and when we spend the parachute money to take us back up. I don't believe for one minute that the owners want to manage the club into the ground as it suits no one. We may well end up having to survive on the scraps again (I'm not confident anymore we will go back up and not because of the squad but more how it is being utilised) but that will be just as much to do with the football department as the owner and Jenkins etc.

Yes Derek, but we’ve established that you’re speaking on behalf of the establishment.

Therefore, your words must be taken in context.

You really should stop.
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#20
I think the only way Lai gets his money back is if we go up. Without the parachutes our value, priced competitively, would be not much more than Wigan. Even if Lai decides to asset-strip (which worries me) he will easily have lost into nine figures.

The idea that there''s some angel dust blowing off our wings and into academy or real estate stuff in China is a stretch too far. How the F many of our first team regulars have made it through our vaunted academy?

So, Lai probably paid over the top, but as long as we were in the Prumpionship his investment was covered. As others have written, he really need s promotion to regain his asset value and the propositional value of the club for China.
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