The Fosun Bubble...
#21
Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. All this proves is unless you are the top 6 or 7 clubs in the land you're only ever 'on loan' to the Premier League and at some point - could be a season - could be like Cov and be 34 seasons - your time will eventually be up. Wolves may kick around in the bottom half for another half a decade but hopefully this signals the end of the filthy bastards pretensions of dining at the top table.
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#22
(04-07-2021, 02:01 PM)Swagbaggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 12:32 PM)Peachy Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 12:22 PM)richbaggie Wrote: Been having a conversation with Wolves fans on twitter about this. Wolves fans commenting about Fosun needing to sell up. But who to? It's the same problem we face and the reason why I am not in the get Lai out of the club by any means group. Unless there is someone out there willing to pump vast amounts of their own money in for no financial return, purely for hobby type purposes, I am hugely wary. And let's face it,  they are going to be very much a rarity.

Self sustainability is fine with me, as long as we put much better plans in place around scouting and youth development.

Bob on Rich.

(04-07-2021, 12:25 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 12:22 PM)richbaggie Wrote: Been having a conversation with Wolves fans on twitter about this. Wolves fans commenting about Fosun needing to sell up. But who to? It's the same problem we face and the reason why I am not in the get Lai out of the club by any means group. Unless there is someone out there willing to pump vast amounts of their own money in for no financial return, purely for hobby type purposes, I am hugely wary. And let's face it,  they are going to be very much a rarity.

Self sustainability is fine with me, as long as we put much better plans in place around scouting and youth development.

Spot on. The only clubs who have had significant investment and not gone tits up are where it’s a hobby for the owner, and they simply don’t want the money back ever. Basically Chelsea and Man City.

And Coates at Stoke. Yet despite his vast fortunes (his missus just paid herself £400m+) and clear love of the club even he's not stupid enough to throw too much at them.

Self sustainability is the only way for clubs like ours. Even more reason to start bringing our talented youngsters through.
That's his daughter and TBF she is the one that utilised the internet to turn it into the global monster that it is today -  plus they pay their taxes in UK. I would be very happy to have them as our benefactors. The others not so much

Wife.

Daughter.

Oft seen as one and the same in Stokeland.
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#23
(04-07-2021, 01:16 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 01:06 PM)Sliced Wrote: 150m? Not in a million years. Traore is a novelty player who's outputs are absolutely atrocious. No one in their right mind is going to pay more than 20 million for Traore, so what; Neto and Neves are supposed to be nearly 70 million each? Not a chance in hell.

There were a lot of rumours around Fosun's involvement in Wolves being primary to curry favour ahead of HS2 contracts... I've no idea how that turned out for them, but I imagine the now reduced opportunity to win lucrative business combined with Chinese clampdown on external investment and the effects of the pandemic on their core global tourism and entertainment business means they need to rethink their spending on an ever increasing vanity project such as the dogheads.

The £350m+ they've pumped in already has given them a competitive advantage to play from and as has been said, in Neves and Neto in particular (and Jimenez when he returns) they have some highly saleable assets which when sold, should give them a warchest which if invested correctly will enable them to continue being competitive in the PL in the same way clubs like Southampton and Palace have been able to establish themselves above the drop zone.

Whilst this doesn't mean they will be doomed to relegation, it does mean they will now have to spend some time looking over their shoulder as oppose to looking upwards, as as has Rich has said, their value is currently incredibly high and any prospective buyer will find themselves having to pay c£300m for a club with a tinpot stadium in a low affluence region of the UK, an ageing squad and a need to continue to invest just to maintain their current standing... this is only an attractive proposition to a vanity buyer and they are few and far between.

I suppose the Dings are now a victim of their own (relative) success in the last few years. When Fosun took over and them struggling meant it was for a low price, now they're doing better the club value has shot up its difficult for anyone to come in and make them worth any more than they currently are. 

Leicester are probably the role model to aim for but it took an incredible season to transform them from also rans to a realistic top 4 team, not sure how much their owners have chucked at it and how much has come from their league/champions league successes... they've had some top youth players come through too.
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#24
(04-07-2021, 02:29 PM)baggiebloke Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 02:01 PM)Swagbaggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 12:25 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: And Coates at Stoke. Yet despite his vast fortunes (his missus just paid herself £400m+) and clear love of the club even he's not stupid enough to throw too much at them.

Self sustainability is the only way for clubs like ours. Even more reason to start bringing our talented youngsters through.
That's his daughter and TBF she is the one that utilised the internet to turn it into the global monster that it is today -  plus they pay their taxes in UK. I would be very happy to have them as our benefactors. The others not so much

Wife.

Daughter.

Oft seen as one and the same in Stokeland.
Wink

Next 5 fixtures for Wo2v3s.

Fulham - Sheff U - Burnley - Us - Brighton.
They could probably go a long way to deciding relegation over this period.

We need them to stage a recovery with the exception of the game at The Hawthorns of course.
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#25
Just been in Wolvo.

Wot a dump.
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#26
(04-07-2021, 02:30 PM)TartanRug Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 01:16 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 01:06 PM)Sliced Wrote: 150m? Not in a million years. Traore is a novelty player who's outputs are absolutely atrocious. No one in their right mind is going to pay more than 20 million for Traore, so what; Neto and Neves are supposed to be nearly 70 million each? Not a chance in hell.

There were a lot of rumours around Fosun's involvement in Wolves being primary to curry favour ahead of HS2 contracts... I've no idea how that turned out for them, but I imagine the now reduced opportunity to win lucrative business combined with Chinese clampdown on external investment and the effects of the pandemic on their core global tourism and entertainment business means they need to rethink their spending on an ever increasing vanity project such as the dogheads.

The £350m+ they've pumped in already has given them a competitive advantage to play from and as has been said, in Neves and Neto in particular (and Jimenez when he returns) they have some highly saleable assets which when sold, should give them a warchest which if invested correctly will enable them to continue being competitive in the PL in the same way clubs like Southampton and Palace have been able to establish themselves above the drop zone.

Whilst this doesn't mean they will be doomed to relegation, it does mean they will now have to spend some time looking over their shoulder as oppose to looking upwards, as as has Rich has said, their value is currently incredibly high and any prospective buyer will find themselves having to pay c£300m for a club with a tinpot stadium in a low affluence region of the UK, an ageing squad and a need to continue to invest just to maintain their current standing... this is only an attractive proposition to a vanity buyer and they are few and far between.

I suppose the Dings are now a victim of their own (relative) success in the last few years. When Fosun took over and them struggling meant it was for a low price, now they're doing better the club value has shot up its difficult for anyone to come in and make them worth any more than they currently are. 

Leicester are probably the role model to aim for but it took an incredible season to transform them from also rans to a realistic top 4 team, not sure how much their owners have chucked at it and how much has come from their league/champions league successes... they've had some top youth players come through too.

Certainly something in that... the worse you do, the more desired as an asset you tend to be. If the worst did happen and we were to be stuck in the Championship (or worse) for a while we'd be more likely to find an owner willing to invest like Fosun... We have a recent history of being established in the PL and seeing our value significantly raised, and we have the infrastructure to compete at that level... Unfortunately whilst we're at the top table, we're more likely to attract owners like Burnley's who need to find a way of extracting cash in the short term instead of working towards a future sale bonanza!

Though, the lower you go, and the lower your price, the more chancers can afford you!

Think Leicester's owners spent a LOT of money to get them promoted in the first place, but they invested very well off the field too, with massive amounts going into data and recruitment and their youth teams which they're now reaping the benefits of. Amazing what can be done at a club no bigger than ourselves when the right ownership making sensible decisions with a little bit of investment combines with a bit of luck (or in their case, a HUGE slice of it!)
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#27
(04-07-2021, 02:53 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 02:30 PM)TartanRug Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 01:16 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 01:06 PM)Sliced Wrote: 150m? Not in a million years. Traore is a novelty player who's outputs are absolutely atrocious. No one in their right mind is going to pay more than 20 million for Traore, so what; Neto and Neves are supposed to be nearly 70 million each? Not a chance in hell.

There were a lot of rumours around Fosun's involvement in Wolves being primary to curry favour ahead of HS2 contracts... I've no idea how that turned out for them, but I imagine the now reduced opportunity to win lucrative business combined with Chinese clampdown on external investment and the effects of the pandemic on their core global tourism and entertainment business means they need to rethink their spending on an ever increasing vanity project such as the dogheads.

The £350m+ they've pumped in already has given them a competitive advantage to play from and as has been said, in Neves and Neto in particular (and Jimenez when he returns) they have some highly saleable assets which when sold, should give them a warchest which if invested correctly will enable them to continue being competitive in the PL in the same way clubs like Southampton and Palace have been able to establish themselves above the drop zone.

Whilst this doesn't mean they will be doomed to relegation, it does mean they will now have to spend some time looking over their shoulder as oppose to looking upwards, as as has Rich has said, their value is currently incredibly high and any prospective buyer will find themselves having to pay c£300m for a club with a tinpot stadium in a low affluence region of the UK, an ageing squad and a need to continue to invest just to maintain their current standing... this is only an attractive proposition to a vanity buyer and they are few and far between.

I suppose the Dings are now a victim of their own (relative) success in the last few years. When Fosun took over and them struggling meant it was for a low price, now they're doing better the club value has shot up its difficult for anyone to come in and make them worth any more than they currently are. 

Leicester are probably the role model to aim for but it took an incredible season to transform them from also rans to a realistic top 4 team, not sure how much their owners have chucked at it and how much has come from their league/champions league successes... they've had some top youth players come through too.

Certainly something in that... the worse you do, the more desired as an asset you tend to be. If the worst did happen and we were to be stuck in the Championship (or worse) for a while we'd be more likely to find an owner willing to invest like Fosun... We have a recent history of being established in the PL and seeing our value significantly raised, and we have the infrastructure to compete at that level... Unfortunately whilst we're at the top table, we're more likely to attract owners like Burnley's who need to find a way of extracting cash in the short term instead of working towards a future sale bonanza!

Though, the lower you go, and the lower your price, the more chancers can afford you!

Think Leicester's owners spent a LOT of money to get them promoted in the first place, but they invested very well off the field too, with massive amounts going into data and recruitment and their youth teams which they're now reaping the benefits of. Amazing what can be done at a club no bigger than ourselves when the right ownership making sensible decisions with a little bit of investment combines with a bit of luck (or in their case, a HUGE slice of it!)

Leicester have just moved into their swish new training ground as well, cost £95m.

Ignoring the ground expansion debate, I'm surprised we've not at least planned to build a new training ground as the one we have is pretty small with limited expansion as far as I'm aware. I think we lease some of the land from Aston uni as well?
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#28
1982 and 1986 all pver again?
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#29
(04-07-2021, 02:53 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 02:30 PM)TartanRug Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 01:16 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 01:06 PM)Sliced Wrote: 150m? Not in a million years. Traore is a novelty player who's outputs are absolutely atrocious. No one in their right mind is going to pay more than 20 million for Traore, so what; Neto and Neves are supposed to be nearly 70 million each? Not a chance in hell.

There were a lot of rumours around Fosun's involvement in Wolves being primary to curry favour ahead of HS2 contracts... I've no idea how that turned out for them, but I imagine the now reduced opportunity to win lucrative business combined with Chinese clampdown on external investment and the effects of the pandemic on their core global tourism and entertainment business means they need to rethink their spending on an ever increasing vanity project such as the dogheads.

The £350m+ they've pumped in already has given them a competitive advantage to play from and as has been said, in Neves and Neto in particular (and Jimenez when he returns) they have some highly saleable assets which when sold, should give them a warchest which if invested correctly will enable them to continue being competitive in the PL in the same way clubs like Southampton and Palace have been able to establish themselves above the drop zone.

Whilst this doesn't mean they will be doomed to relegation, it does mean they will now have to spend some time looking over their shoulder as oppose to looking upwards, as as has Rich has said, their value is currently incredibly high and any prospective buyer will find themselves having to pay c£300m for a club with a tinpot stadium in a low affluence region of the UK, an ageing squad and a need to continue to invest just to maintain their current standing... this is only an attractive proposition to a vanity buyer and they are few and far between.

I suppose the Dings are now a victim of their own (relative) success in the last few years. When Fosun took over and them struggling meant it was for a low price, now they're doing better the club value has shot up its difficult for anyone to come in and make them worth any more than they currently are. 

Leicester are probably the role model to aim for but it took an incredible season to transform them from also rans to a realistic top 4 team, not sure how much their owners have chucked at it and how much has come from their league/champions league successes... they've had some top youth players come through too.

Certainly something in that... the worse you do, the more desired as an asset you tend to be. If the worst did happen and we were to be stuck in the Championship (or worse) for a while we'd be more likely to find an owner willing to invest like Fosun... We have a recent history of being established in the PL and seeing our value significantly raised, and we have the infrastructure to compete at that level... Unfortunately whilst we're at the top table, we're more likely to attract owners like Burnley's who need to find a way of extracting cash in the short term instead of working towards a future sale bonanza!

Though, the lower you go, and the lower your price, the more chancers can afford you!

Think Leicester's owners spent a LOT of money to get them promoted in the first place, but they invested very well off the field too, with massive amounts going into data and recruitment and their youth teams which they're now reaping the benefits of. Amazing what can be done at a club no bigger than ourselves when the right ownership making sensible decisions with a little bit of investment combines with a bit of luck (or in their case, a HUGE slice of it!)

Good post. We can definately look into improving recruitment without breaking the bank. 

Though, the lower you go, and the lower your price, the more chancers can afford you!

Project League 2 is in progress  Big Grin
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#30
If our owners aren't interested and want to sell, / told to sell and add to that Lai made it very clear we would run as a self sustainable club then I don't see we have any other option but to try and win promotion at the first or second season of asking and selling the club.

Otherwise all we will do is cut, cut and cut our wage bill, and pretty much mothball any plans for the ground, youth teams, training ground, scouting etc. We may not go bust overnight but we we shall suffer long term financially and eventually back to 1990's hell. Disinterested owners who won't / can't invest and a club that hardly excels and generating it's own funds outside of TV deals is never going to solve it's problems by bringing through young players as they will simply get nicked if they are Prem standard and if not they will simply keep us ticking over at best and at worst getting worse as a club. I know it's a nice idea to have this self sustainable, think outside the box type club punching well above its weight but it's not going to happen with owners who by all accounts want out and want out asap.
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