Big Sam poll.....
#71
The problem with long term plans is appreciating that they may not work and then you’ve wasted huge resources and years pursuing a pipe dream. There seems to be this notion that sticking with someone / something for a number of years will invariably bring positive long term results. It doesn’t give any more certainty than any other methodology.
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#72
(04-08-2021, 02:23 PM)Sliced Wrote:
(04-08-2021, 11:21 AM)Birdman1811 Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 07:56 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 07:49 PM)Bortolazzi's Barnet Wrote: I think Wilder's record is brilliant but feel Sam is a better manager. Sam knows a signing. With money, Wilder doesn't.

Both managers have a set of parameters they work best within, Sam will deliver if backed to his needs, Wilder will deliver with less backing but total control. Appleton then seems to be the type who can deliver within the right framework where he’s responsible for coaching and training.

Our decision is whether we want to choose a system and then make an appointment based on that, or whether we want to choose our system based on who wants the job.

I think that's an excellent post and very true.

Honestly, all 3 will get us promoted, but differently. If we want to go back to how we were under Pulis, not playing wise I hastily add, but transfer wise, Sam is the man.

Wilder will lean more towards us under Roy, but there are more doubts on his ability to keep us up.

Appletons long term career here with the prem will rely heavily on Dowling or any replacement of his, like Clarke.

This is definitely the sort of statement that could come back to bite. We should get promoted, but it's certainly not guaranteed. The first season Stoke went down they had the squad to walk the league and got absolutely nowhere near. I'm certainly dubious of Appleton's ability to get a Championship team winning week in week out.

He's a far better coach than RDM was and will have the benefit of similar resources. He absolutely should get promotion. Of course the caveat as before, if he fails to get Lincoln promoted this season he needs more time there to finish that job yet.
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#73
(04-08-2021, 03:03 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: The problem with long term plans is appreciating that they may not work and then you’ve wasted huge resources and years pursuing a pipe dream. There seems to be this notion that sticking with someone / something for a number of years will invariably bring positive long term results. It doesn’t give any more certainty than any other methodology.

There is no such thing as long-term planning in football, at any level. Clubs will do what seems to be working and stick with it until it doesn't work and they then try something else. Fans do not have the patience for anything else. I don't see clubs trying to maximise their finances as any type of grand vision either, it just seems visionary in a financially incontinent, short term industry, where so much money is spent so poorly.
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#74
(04-08-2021, 03:06 PM)Birdman1811 Wrote:
(04-08-2021, 02:23 PM)Sliced Wrote:
(04-08-2021, 11:21 AM)Birdman1811 Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 07:56 PM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 07:49 PM)Bortolazzi's Barnet Wrote: I think Wilder's record is brilliant but feel Sam is a better manager. Sam knows a signing. With money, Wilder doesn't.

Both managers have a set of parameters they work best within, Sam will deliver if backed to his needs, Wilder will deliver with less backing but total control. Appleton then seems to be the type who can deliver within the right framework where he’s responsible for coaching and training.

Our decision is whether we want to choose a system and then make an appointment based on that, or whether we want to choose our system based on who wants the job.

I think that's an excellent post and very true.

Honestly, all 3 will get us promoted, but differently. If we want to go back to how we were under Pulis, not playing wise I hastily add, but transfer wise, Sam is the man.

Wilder will lean more towards us under Roy, but there are more doubts on his ability to keep us up.

Appletons long term career here with the prem will rely heavily on Dowling or any replacement of his, like Clarke.

This is definitely the sort of statement that could come back to bite. We should get promoted, but it's certainly not guaranteed. The first season Stoke went down they had the squad to walk the league and got absolutely nowhere near. I'm certainly dubious of Appleton's ability to get a Championship team winning week in week out.

He's a far better coach than RDM was and will have the benefit of similar resources. He absolutely should get promotion. Of course the caveat as before, if he fails to get Lincoln promoted this season he needs more time there to finish that job yet.

Not sure he should be judged a failure if he doesn't get Lincoln promoted this season... Look at the teams around them in the play off places... Sunderland, Pompey, Charlton, Ipswich... Granted Blackpool have come out of nowhere recently, but even they're a much larger club.

Lincoln should be nowhere near the top 6 of League One with their resources, and the very fact they're not only being competitive but are having success at that level is a testament to the work he's done. 

For context Lincoln haven't been in the second tier since the mid-50s, and other than one top 6 finish in the early 80s, have been nowhere near this level since before WW2. 5 Years ago they were in non-league prior to the Cowley's arrival, and Appleton has not only continued the success they started, but has done it by ripping up the blue-print and starting again with a much better style of football and a more sustainable brand of player recruitment. 

Whether he's ready to lead our promotion push next season, I'm not sure, but his work in the last 18 months at Lincoln certainly shouldn't be considered a failure if they don't win promotion this year. 

Critchley at Blackpool probably deserves an honourable mention too for the job he's doing there. 10 years coaching at Liverpool after being involved in youth football, and is doing a bloody good job in what's traditionally been a basketcase club.
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#75
I'm not knocking his record at lower league level, but to hit the ground running at a championship club when the only other championship management experience you have is getting spanked repeatedly at basket case clubs is a big ask.

Am I impressed with how he's done at Lincoln? Absolutely

Do I have faith that he'll be able to adapt immediately to managing a newly relegated Prem club and win us promotion on the first attempt? Absolutely not
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#76
(04-08-2021, 05:57 PM)Sliced Wrote: I'm not knocking his record at lower league level, but to hit the ground running at a championship club when the only other championship management experience you have is getting spanked repeatedly at basket case clubs is a big ask.

Am I impressed with how he's done at Lincoln? Absolutely

Do I have faith that he'll be able to adapt immediately to managing a newly relegated Prem club and win us promotion on the first attempt? Absolutely not

Exactly.
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#77
(04-08-2021, 05:57 PM)Sliced Wrote: I'm not knocking his record at lower league level, but to hit the ground running at a championship club when the only other championship management experience you have is getting spanked repeatedly at basket case clubs is a big ask.

Am I impressed with how he's done at Lincoln? Absolutely

Do I have faith that he'll be able to adapt immediately to managing a newly relegated Prem club and win us promotion on the first attempt? Absolutely not

The same concern I have about Allardyce.
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#78
(04-08-2021, 06:31 PM)Big Daddy Cool Wrote:
(04-08-2021, 05:57 PM)Sliced Wrote: I'm not knocking his record at lower league level, but to hit the ground running at a championship club when the only other championship management experience you have is getting spanked repeatedly at basket case clubs is a big ask.

Am I impressed with how he's done at Lincoln? Absolutely

Do I have faith that he'll be able to adapt immediately to managing a newly relegated Prem club and win us promotion on the first attempt? Absolutely not

The same concern I have about Allardyce.

Without much justification given his CV.
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#79
(04-08-2021, 06:31 PM)Big Daddy Cool Wrote:
(04-08-2021, 05:57 PM)Sliced Wrote: I'm not knocking his record at lower league level, but to hit the ground running at a championship club when the only other championship management experience you have is getting spanked repeatedly at basket case clubs is a big ask.

Am I impressed with how he's done at Lincoln? Absolutely

Do I have faith that he'll be able to adapt immediately to managing a newly relegated Prem club and win us promotion on the first attempt? Absolutely not

The same concern I have about Allardyce.

Well Allardyce is already working with the squad and has experience of performing well in the Championship.

My trepidation with Appleton is due to the fact he's not done it before, whereas Allardyce a) has done it before, multiple times and b) has already shown he knows the squad well enough to recognise how to improve it. I think your reasons for the concern are different from mine. I don't really like Allardyce, but I reckon he'd be fine
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#80
With Allardyce it's really if he even wants to manage a whole championship season, it's considered mire stressful than the Prem and his health isn't great.

As said before, I'm open minded to all three mentioned here all for different reasons.
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