Union Jack.
#21
(04-07-2021, 04:00 PM)Solihull Throstle Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 03:52 PM)bradesbaggie Wrote: If you come from immigrant parents you have a very different view of the union jack - the flag of the British Empire. 

Give me the flag of St George any day.

I'd agree, if it hadn't been hijacked by so many brain-dead over the years.
I don't feel the decent English have ever truly reclaimed it.

Very true. Fly the flag of St George and you are immediately labeled by some as a football hooligan or a supporter of the BNP/NF/whatever they have rebranded themselves as this week.

Fly the Saltire or The Red Dragon and you are simply proud of your country.

Go figure.
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#22
(04-03-2021, 11:32 AM)wba13 Wrote: I don’t care if there Black,white, pink ,green or yellow. I don’t agree with any racism of any form but for those kids to have burnt and them have our Union Jack taken down is totally wrong. The flag represents everything I am British through and through. Those stupid kids ought to take a history lesson
All immigrants cannot be allowed to forget our history that is what our Union Jack represents.

I'm a child of immigrants and also see myself as 'British through and through'

I'm stuck in the US at the moment, but I usually live between the two. I still regard the Uk as home. It's not perfect - but what home is?

I'm assuming the flag represents different things to different people so I'm not sure you can 'teach' a definitive version of what it means. As for history - there's as many different versions as their are historians.

So anyway, when I see the flag I associate it with what I think of the UK. To me it represents tolerance, idealism and eccentricity.

Living in the US, one of the things that always made me smile was how they use the flag as a political battering ram. I smugly always thought we were better than that - once somebody uses the flag or some other emotional plea to patriotism, I'm always suspicious of their motives.

Personally, I think people can burn the Union Flag as much as they want. It doesn't change what I think and if they think it hurts my national pride - great, keep doing it. I'd rather they waste their time doing that than other things that would actually make a difference.

It also make me proud that my home is tolerant of such immaturity and has 'grown up' and evolved as a nation in a way that the US hasn't.
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#23
(04-07-2021, 04:43 PM)MrFizz Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 04:00 PM)Solihull Throstle Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 03:52 PM)bradesbaggie Wrote: If you come from immigrant parents you have a very different view of the union jack - the flag of the British Empire. 

Give me the flag of St George any day.

I'd agree, if it hadn't been hijacked by so many brain-dead over the years.
I don't feel the decent English have ever truly reclaimed it.

Very true. Fly the flag of St George and you are immediately labeled by some as a football hooligan or a supporter of the BNP/NF/whatever they have rebranded themselves as this week.

Fly the Saltire or The Red Dragon and you are simply proud of your country.

Go figure.

Fly St Alban's cross and you get asked by your idiot of a neighbour whether you're part Scottish...
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#24
(04-07-2021, 04:47 PM)fuzzbox Wrote:
(04-03-2021, 11:32 AM)wba13 Wrote: I don’t care if there Black,white, pink ,green or yellow. I don’t agree with any racism of any form but for those kids to have burnt and them have our Union Jack taken down is totally wrong. The flag represents everything I am British through and through. Those stupid kids ought to take a history lesson
All immigrants cannot be allowed to forget our history that is what our Union Jack represents.

I'm a child of immigrants and also see myself as 'British through and through'

I'm stuck in the US at the moment, but I usually live between the two. I still regard the Uk as home. It's not perfect - but what home is?

I'm assuming the flag represents different things to different people so I'm not sure you can 'teach' a definitive version of what it means. As for history - there's as many different versions as their are historians.

So anyway, when I see the flag I associate it with what I think of the UK. To me it represents tolerance, idealism and eccentricity.

Living in the US, one of the things that always made me smile was how they use the flag as a political battering ram. I smugly always thought we were better than that. To me, once somebody uses the flag or some other emotional plea to patriotism, I'm always suspicious of their motives.

To me, people can burn the Union Flag as much as they want. It doesn't change what I think and if they think it hurts my national pride - great, keep doing it. I'd rather they waste their time doing that than other things that would actually make a difference.

It also make me proud that my home is tolerant of such immaturity and has 'grown up' and evolved as a nation in a way that the US hasn't.

I agree with this. I will criticise anyone who burns a Union Flag*. But it is their right to freedom of expression (as long as they haven't stolen it to do so, like the kids at the school, then it is criminal damage).

The flag represents the libertywe have that enables them to burn it.

*No, this doesn't impinge on anyone else's freedom of expression. They have the right to express themselves, and my right to FoE encompasses the right to criticise others.
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#25
I thought flags were supposed to be flame retardant these days. Seemed a bit backward to me when I used to see revolutionary Iranians dressed in cotton garb settling fire to the Stars and Stripes on TV as a kid in the early 80s. Not really the action of a bright spark, especially if you catch fire yourself when doing it.
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#26
(04-07-2021, 04:47 PM)fuzzbox Wrote:
(04-03-2021, 11:32 AM)wba13 Wrote: I don’t care if there Black,white, pink ,green or yellow. I don’t agree with any racism of any form but for those kids to have burnt and them have our Union Jack taken down is totally wrong. The flag represents everything I am British through and through. Those stupid kids ought to take a history lesson
All immigrants cannot be allowed to forget our history that is what our Union Jack represents.

I'm a child of immigrants and also see myself as 'British through and through'

I'm stuck in the US at the moment, but I usually live between the two. I still regard the Uk as home. It's not perfect - but what home is?

I'm assuming the flag represents different things to different people so I'm not sure you can 'teach' a definitive version of what it means. As for history - there's as many different versions as their are historians.

So anyway, when I see the flag I associate it with what I think of the UK. To me it represents tolerance, idealism and eccentricity.

Living in the US, one of the things that always made me smile was how they use the flag as a political battering ram. I smugly always thought we were better than that - once somebody uses the flag or some other emotional plea to patriotism, I'm always suspicious of their motives.

Personally, I think people can burn the Union Flag as much as they want. It doesn't change what I think and if they think it hurts my national pride - great, keep doing it. I'd rather they waste their time doing that than other things that would actually make a difference.

It also make me proud that my home is tolerant of such immaturity and has 'grown up' and evolved as a nation in a way that the US hasn't.
Well said!
"Patriotism, the last resort of the scoundrel" - Boris Johnson.
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#27
(04-08-2021, 11:31 AM)Johnnykayeengland Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 04:47 PM)fuzzbox Wrote:
(04-03-2021, 11:32 AM)wba13 Wrote: I don’t care if there Black,white, pink ,green or yellow. I don’t agree with any racism of any form but for those kids to have burnt and them have our Union Jack taken down is totally wrong. The flag represents everything I am British through and through. Those stupid kids ought to take a history lesson
All immigrants cannot be allowed to forget our history that is what our Union Jack represents.

I'm a child of immigrants and also see myself as 'British through and through'

I'm stuck in the US at the moment, but I usually live between the two. I still regard the Uk as home. It's not perfect - but what home is?

I'm assuming the flag represents different things to different people so I'm not sure you can 'teach' a definitive version of what it means. As for history - there's as many different versions as their are historians.

So anyway, when I see the flag I associate it with what I think of the UK. To me it represents tolerance, idealism and eccentricity.

Living in the US, one of the things that always made me smile was how they use the flag as a political battering ram. I smugly always thought we were better than that - once somebody uses the flag or some other emotional plea to patriotism, I'm always suspicious of their motives.

Personally, I think people can burn the Union Flag as much as they want. It doesn't change what I think and if they think it hurts my national pride - great, keep doing it. I'd rather they waste their time doing that than other things that would actually make a difference.

It also make me proud that my home is tolerant of such immaturity and has 'grown up' and evolved as a nation in a way that the US hasn't.
Well said!
"Patriotism, the last resort of the scoundrel" - Boris Johnson.

That dictum is misued, though, he was having a go at fake patriotism.
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#28
I would like to know which other countries would be really chilled about their flag being burned. I suspect it's a rather short list.
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#29
(04-08-2021, 01:25 PM)Squid Wrote: I would like to know which other countries would be really chilled about their flag being burned. I suspect it's a rather short list.

Didn't the 'tourist trap' documentary  do something like this on tv once?

The hotel employees all went missing and left 'evidence' of a staff party with a burnt flag of their guests on the floor.

The Americans were absolutely livid - even afterwards when it was revealed as an experiment. One even asked for the flag back to be buried.
As far as I remember and I could be wrong, the Germans were confused, the Scandinavians started to tidy up and the British just laughed, sidestepped the mess and helped themselves to the beer.

In all seriousness though, there's been history of burning flags since flags were invented. I'm sure governments rise above it when they see it - they're certainly not going to let the flag burners dictate their foreign policy.

As for me, If I know somebody is doing something to get a rise out of me - why would I give them what they want? Resorting to burning a flag shows how little power they have and I'm happy for it to stay that way.
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#30
Flags are bullshit.
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