Unevidenced testing of our children
#31
This is like Van Tam debating with Toby Young.

Someone put Billy out of his misery, it's painful.
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#32
(03-03-2021, 04:39 PM)baggy1 Wrote:
(03-03-2021, 04:22 PM)The liquidator Wrote: Next slide please .

Big Grin

Big Grin  That does deserve a +1

(03-03-2021, 04:38 PM)baggy1 Wrote: So in summary, you seem to think that over quarter of a million deaths from influenza would have been acceptable in a 15 week period and that we would have been able to cope with that? 

You also miss one massive point in that we actually have some inbuilt immunity to influenza along with existing medicines / vaccines, we had none of that for covid which means that the 210-315k figure could be multiplied many times. Then you would have had the impact on the NHS staff with such a sudden and prolonged exposure to this new virus, there were already a high level of deaths for front line staff - further exposure on the scale you talk about would have resulted in many more deaths which would lead to reduced capacity going forward to deal with any other treatments.

Your logic around transmissibility and lockdown is bizarre, reducing the opportunity to transmit is what lockdown has meant. No matter how much more it is transmissible it will never be able to transmit through walls. And then you talk about a working tracing system aligned with a focussed protection strategy - 1stly we don't have a working tracing system and secondly it is because people like yourself have been saying 'let's get back to normal' that people have ignored any focussed protection. I will ask again, how do you intend to have focussed protection for a quarter of the UKs population? Words are wind, back them up with how.

And yes the govt were starting by using their own strategy and very quickly found out that this isn't influenza and 315,000 would have been the low end of where we were heading. We had 45k excess deaths in April whilst stopping transmission with a real lockdown. It accelerated from 1k to 6k to 11k in 3 weeks and there is nothing to say that it wouldn't have continued to rise exponentially without the lockdown, which by the way you have already said you agreed with.

Another massive point you seem to be ignoring is that immunity only appears to be lasting a few months, again I'll repeat what I said earlier, comparison to a virus that we have medicines and pre-existing immunity is simple bonkers.

And you logic is that we can't prove there would have been more deaths, it seems that you need evidence of actual deaths instead of the logic that shows cases rising, followed by hospitalisations rising, followed by excess deaths rising which seem to reverse when we have lockdowns put in place. I've literally shown the numbers in hospital rising since september and them falling after lockdown on this bored on a weekly basis.

And like you we're all pissed off with lockdowns, the economic hit, the damage to the economy and the big recovery that will be needed but as we're nearly there with the vaccine rollout it seems bizarre that you are against vaccinations and testing of children. In fact you appear to be against everything part from 'just open up' and 'lock up the vulnerable'.

And as ever the question of 'show us the workings' comes out when no-one knows what will cost more and ironically you can't give any workings for your calculations that you are so certain will be better. 

Words are wind mate and you are blowing a fucking gale.

Leave it mate, he’s had enuff... your gunna kill im Wink 

That was a metaphor before anyone gets upset.
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#33
(03-03-2021, 04:38 PM)baggy1 Wrote: So in summary, you seem to think that over quarter of a million deaths from influenza would have been acceptable in a 15 week period and that we would have been able to cope with that? 

You also miss one massive point in that we actually have some inbuilt immunity to influenza along with existing medicines / vaccines, we had none of that for covid which means that the 210-315k figure could be multiplied many times. Then you would have had the impact on the NHS staff with such a sudden and prolonged exposure to this new virus, there were already a high level of deaths for front line staff - further exposure on the scale you talk about would have resulted in many more deaths which would lead to reduced capacity going forward to deal with any other treatments.

Your logic around transmissibility and lockdown is bizarre, reducing the opportunity to transmit is what lockdown has meant. No matter how much more it is transmissible it will never be able to transmit through walls. And then you talk about a working tracing system aligned with a focussed protection strategy - 1stly we don't have a working tracing system and secondly it is because people like yourself have been saying 'let's get back to normal' that people have ignored any focussed protection. I will ask again, how do you intend to have focussed protection for a quarter of the UKs population? Words are wind, back them up with how.

And yes the govt were starting by using their own strategy and very quickly found out that this isn't influenza and 315,000 would have been the low end of where we were heading. We had 45k excess deaths in April whilst stopping transmission with a real lockdown. It accelerated from 1k to 6k to 11k in 3 weeks and there is nothing to say that it wouldn't have continued to rise exponentially without the lockdown, which by the way you have already said you agreed with.

Another massive point you seem to be ignoring is that immunity only appears to be lasting a few months, again I'll repeat what I said earlier, comparison to a virus that we have medicines and pre-existing immunity is simple bonkers.

And you logic is that we can't prove there would have been more deaths, it seems that you need evidence of actual deaths instead of the logic that shows cases rising, followed by hospitalisations rising, followed by excess deaths rising which seem to reverse when we have lockdowns put in place. I've literally shown the numbers in hospital rising since september and them falling after lockdown on this bored on a weekly basis.

And like you we're all pissed off with lockdowns, the economic hit, the damage to the economy and the big recovery that will be needed but as we're nearly there with the vaccine rollout it seems bizarre that you are against vaccinations and testing of children. In fact you appear to be against everything part from 'just open up' and 'lock up the vulnerable'.

And as ever the question of 'show us the workings' comes out when no-one knows what will cost more and ironically you can't give any workings for your calculations that you are so certain will be better. 

Words are wind mate and you are blowing a fucking gale.

This is the response I expected. Talk about bluster and hot air. Immunity only lasting a few months FFS. What a tit. Completely losing sight of how immunity actually works. Are you a paid up member of Astra zeneca?

You've completely missed all the salient points and refused to counter the ones you can't . The point about total.net costs and benefits completely ignored. Gone straight to your go-to line on covid deaths. 

I'm also not against vaccinations so that's complete slander and will have one when it's my turn. I'm also not against testing of any population when there's a clear evidence based approach to doing so. Testing kids does not on any level. Better off spending the money on a national screening programme in men for prostate cancer. 

I actually think you're a parody account. Or a bot. You put the same words in a different order every time even though as we understand more and the data changes you seem unable to get off the track you're on. A rail to nowhere. 

Didnt expect much else tbh you're completely one eyed and incapable of actually moving to a wider debate. Sad really as it's because of the loud bluster bullies like you across the internet that stop people having a grown up debate. You're incapable of it but what's worse you'll do everything in your small world to stamp out people who bring different Information and views to the table. Freedom of speech doesn't work in bully1's world. Censorship only.

Keep on wanking into that sock I see your little crony crew jumped in to fluff you as well . Oh and by the way nighty night bully1
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#34
(03-03-2021, 06:54 PM)woodman Wrote:
(03-03-2021, 04:38 PM)baggy1 Wrote: So in summary, you seem to think that over quarter of a million deaths from influenza would have been acceptable in a 15 week period and that we would have been able to cope with that? 

You also miss one massive point in that we actually have some inbuilt immunity to influenza along with existing medicines / vaccines, we had none of that for covid which means that the 210-315k figure could be multiplied many times. Then you would have had the impact on the NHS staff with such a sudden and prolonged exposure to this new virus, there were already a high level of deaths for front line staff - further exposure on the scale you talk about would have resulted in many more deaths which would lead to reduced capacity going forward to deal with any other treatments.

Your logic around transmissibility and lockdown is bizarre, reducing the opportunity to transmit is what lockdown has meant. No matter how much more it is transmissible it will never be able to transmit through walls. And then you talk about a working tracing system aligned with a focussed protection strategy - 1stly we don't have a working tracing system and secondly it is because people like yourself have been saying 'let's get back to normal' that people have ignored any focussed protection. I will ask again, how do you intend to have focussed protection for a quarter of the UKs population? Words are wind, back them up with how.

And yes the govt were starting by using their own strategy and very quickly found out that this isn't influenza and 315,000 would have been the low end of where we were heading. We had 45k excess deaths in April whilst stopping transmission with a real lockdown. It accelerated from 1k to 6k to 11k in 3 weeks and there is nothing to say that it wouldn't have continued to rise exponentially without the lockdown, which by the way you have already said you agreed with.

Another massive point you seem to be ignoring is that immunity only appears to be lasting a few months, again I'll repeat what I said earlier, comparison to a virus that we have medicines and pre-existing immunity is simple bonkers.

And you logic is that we can't prove there would have been more deaths, it seems that you need evidence of actual deaths instead of the logic that shows cases rising, followed by hospitalisations rising, followed by excess deaths rising which seem to reverse when we have lockdowns put in place. I've literally shown the numbers in hospital rising since september and them falling after lockdown on this bored on a weekly basis.

And like you we're all pissed off with lockdowns, the economic hit, the damage to the economy and the big recovery that will be needed but as we're nearly there with the vaccine rollout it seems bizarre that you are against vaccinations and testing of children. In fact you appear to be against everything part from 'just open up' and 'lock up the vulnerable'.

And as ever the question of 'show us the workings' comes out when no-one knows what will cost more and ironically you can't give any workings for your calculations that you are so certain will be better. 

Words are wind mate and you are blowing a fucking gale.

This is the response I expected. Talk about bluster and hot air. Immunity only lasting a few months FFS. What a tit. Completely losing sight of how immunity actually works. Are you a paid up member of Astra zeneca?

You've completely missed all the salient points and refused to counter the ones you can't . The point about total.net costs and benefits completely ignored. Gone straight to your go-to line on covid deaths. 

I'm also not against vaccinations so that's complete slander and will have one when it's my turn. I'm also not against testing of any population when there's a clear evidence based approach to doing so. Testing kids does not on any level. Better off spending the money on a national screening programme in men for prostate cancer. 

I actually think you're a parody account. Or a bot. You put the same words in a different order every time even though as we understand more and the data changes you seem unable to get off the track you're on. A rail to nowhere. 

Didnt expect much else tbh you're completely one eyed and incapable of actually moving to a wider debate. Sad really as it's because of the loud bluster bullies like you across the internet that stop people having a grown up debate. You're incapable of it but what's worse you'll do everything in your small world to stamp out people who bring different Information and views to the table. Freedom of speech doesn't work in bully1's world. Censorship only.

Keep on wanking into that sock I see your little crony crew jumped in to fluff you as well . Oh and by the way nighty night bully1

1stly you haven't actually made any points except "focussed protection strategy", which when scratching below the surface doesn't mean anything. How would you focus protection on a quarter of the population?

And 2ndly, your obsession with me wanking into a sock is starting to get a bit disturbing. Well lets be honest, its fucking weird, although that does match your general view.

And slander  Big Grin , you are a fucking internet persona without a real name you muppet.
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#35
He's gone. I'm bored of his nonsense and don't want this place to be a breeding ground for that level of dangerous stupidity.
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#36
Big Grin

Nice one Birdy, who is going to fantasise about me wanking into a sock though. I've never had my own personal fanboy before.
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#37
If asking kids to have regular tests and wear a mask in school, for the greater good, is abuse I must be living in a parallel universe.
I'm a teacher of 30 + years!
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#38
(03-03-2021, 06:54 PM)woodman Wrote:
(03-03-2021, 04:38 PM)baggy1 Wrote: So in summary, you seem to think that over quarter of a million deaths from influenza would have been acceptable in a 15 week period and that we would have been able to cope with that? 

You also miss one massive point in that we actually have some inbuilt immunity to influenza along with existing medicines / vaccines, we had none of that for covid which means that the 210-315k figure could be multiplied many times. Then you would have had the impact on the NHS staff with such a sudden and prolonged exposure to this new virus, there were already a high level of deaths for front line staff - further exposure on the scale you talk about would have resulted in many more deaths which would lead to reduced capacity going forward to deal with any other treatments.

Your logic around transmissibility and lockdown is bizarre, reducing the opportunity to transmit is what lockdown has meant. No matter how much more it is transmissible it will never be able to transmit through walls. And then you talk about a working tracing system aligned with a focussed protection strategy - 1stly we don't have a working tracing system and secondly it is because people like yourself have been saying 'let's get back to normal' that people have ignored any focussed protection. I will ask again, how do you intend to have focussed protection for a quarter of the UKs population? Words are wind, back them up with how.

And yes the govt were starting by using their own strategy and very quickly found out that this isn't influenza and 315,000 would have been the low end of where we were heading. We had 45k excess deaths in April whilst stopping transmission with a real lockdown. It accelerated from 1k to 6k to 11k in 3 weeks and there is nothing to say that it wouldn't have continued to rise exponentially without the lockdown, which by the way you have already said you agreed with.

Another massive point you seem to be ignoring is that immunity only appears to be lasting a few months, again I'll repeat what I said earlier, comparison to a virus that we have medicines and pre-existing immunity is simple bonkers.

And you logic is that we can't prove there would have been more deaths, it seems that you need evidence of actual deaths instead of the logic that shows cases rising, followed by hospitalisations rising, followed by excess deaths rising which seem to reverse when we have lockdowns put in place. I've literally shown the numbers in hospital rising since september and them falling after lockdown on this bored on a weekly basis.

And like you we're all pissed off with lockdowns, the economic hit, the damage to the economy and the big recovery that will be needed but as we're nearly there with the vaccine rollout it seems bizarre that you are against vaccinations and testing of children. In fact you appear to be against everything part from 'just open up' and 'lock up the vulnerable'.

And as ever the question of 'show us the workings' comes out when no-one knows what will cost more and ironically you can't give any workings for your calculations that you are so certain will be better. 

Words are wind mate and you are blowing a fucking gale.

This is the response I expected. Talk about bluster and hot air. Immunity only lasting a few months FFS. What a tit. Completely losing sight of how immunity actually works. Are you a paid up member of Astra zeneca?

You've completely missed all the salient points and refused to counter the ones you can't . The point about total.net costs and benefits completely ignored. Gone straight to your go-to line on covid deaths. 

I'm also not against vaccinations so that's complete slander and will have one when it's my turn. I'm also not against testing of any population when there's a clear evidence based approach to doing so. Testing kids does not on any level. Better off spending the money on a national screening programme in men for prostate cancer. 

I actually think you're a parody account. Or a bot. You put the same words in a different order every time even though as we understand more and the data changes you seem unable to get off the track you're on. A rail to nowhere. 

Didnt expect much else tbh you're completely one eyed and incapable of actually moving to a wider debate. Sad really as it's because of the loud bluster bullies like you across the internet that stop people having a grown up debate. You're incapable of it but what's worse you'll do everything in your small world to stamp out people who bring different Information and views to the table. Freedom of speech doesn't work in bully1's world. Censorship only.

Keep on wanking into that sock I see your little crony crew jumped in to fluff you as well . Oh and by the way nighty night bully1
Wow.  And I was willing to follow you...

The sock,  I fear the SOCK.
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