Covid Vaccination ID
#21
@BB on the last post to Dekka: I think to say that they have 'made their mind up' is an assumption, there could be many reasons including simply timing of the data, or they may be shown to have an allergy that prevents the jab being given.

On a separate note the fertility issue is pretty straight forward as far as I see it, there is no biological way that the vaccine can impact on fertility. When the message is clarified to that group then there will probably be a decent uptake, I think 50% is on the low side but we won't know that until the end of the year at the earliest. The younger members of my family that I have asked have said initially that they wouldn't have it for that very reason and when it was explained and the RC of Midwifery report was pointed to they were ok with getting it.

(02-16-2021, 11:39 AM)Protheroe Wrote: "What I don't think we will have in this country is - as it were - vaccination passports to allow you to go to, say, the pub or something like that."

I don't think it can be clearer than that.

As said above it would pretty much be unworkable, or more likely it would be used in the low risk areas that would do things properly but not in the areas that don't give a shit about many things. Can you imagine them checking with any great detail on the door of some of the clubs in Digbeth down the backstreets.
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#22
Quick fix legislation is frequently flawed and should only ever be invoked for genuine emergencies and where there are no alternatives. Even then it needs to be vigorously monitored, as politicians are generally far more keen to acquire powers than they are to relinquish them, even when their use by date is long expired.

Not that legislation that's been debated to destruction is necessarily free of imperfections but at least there's usually some comfort from scrutiny.

I would have been implacably imposed to vaccine passports.
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#23
The concept for me of some form of health passport is very disturbing. It's potentially discriminatory on so many levels not least for those people who can't have certain vaccinations or treatment because of their age, gender, race, health etc. Imagine insurance companies getting it etc..

It is also so much big brother hammer to crack a nut policy as to be ridiculous. Anybody advocating one should stay in lockdown forever as they must be so scared to even enter a plane or a nightclub with other people. Honestly.

Notwithstanding all that, bored billionaires like Bill Gates, who after 30yrs in computing, think they are now experts in epidemiology, climate change and the future of food and medicine will no doubt continue to push for this kind of thing and unfortunately that day will inevitably come. I home it's not in mine or my family's lifetime.

So Fuck off Bill. Let those who know do their job. And those requesting a vaccine passport do one too.
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#24
(02-16-2021, 04:13 PM)woodman Wrote: The concept for me of some form of health passport is very disturbing. It's potentially discriminatory on so many levels not least for those people who can't have certain vaccinations or treatment because of their age, gender, race, health etc. Imagine insurance companies getting it etc..

It is also so much big brother hammer to crack a nut policy as to be ridiculous. Anybody advocating one should stay in lockdown forever as they must be so scared to even enter a plane or a nightclub with other people. Honestly.

Notwithstanding all that, bored billionaires like Bill Gates, who after 30yrs in computing, think they are now experts in epidemiology, climate change and the future of food and medicine will no doubt continue to push for this kind of thing and unfortunately that day will inevitably come. I home it's not in mine or my family's lifetime.

So Fuck off Bill. Let those who know do their job. And those requesting a vaccine passport do one too.

He doesn't pretend to be an expert. He listens to them and funds more money into research than many governments.

I never get the hate for Bill Gates, well, other than from the computing standpoint. Has given back absolute fortunes.
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#25
I agree with Oss re quick fix legislation. I am also  uncomfortable with the idea of vaccine passports. I read most opinions in order to try and understand all viewpoints as this is unlike anything we have faced before.  Without having the time to sit and ponder the ramifications, morals etc. I would just say my gut feeling is that I am against enforced vaccinations.
I should add, I have had all the innoculations offered throughout childhood, my children were also vaccinated. I will also have the Covid jab as soon as it is offered, although I'm not totally comfortable with it, it appears the easiest option to gain some semblance of normality again.
Having said that, I am now turned 60 and have never fancied having the flu jab. Apart from last winter when I suffered what I think was Covid (undiagnosed but all the symptoms and the worst I've ever felt in my life), I don't think I have had a flu worthy of the name and rarely even get colds. Maybe it's because I work outdoors but for whatever reason I have been gifted with a decent immune system and I'm reluctant to start depending on pharma before I actually need to.
  As I say, I will take the Covid jab when offered- but many of the people I know who have had the jab have taken it simply as the least worst option. This is because as well as the scaremongerers, conspiracy theorists and religious cranks, some people simply have a healthy mistrust of Big Pharma.
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#26
(02-16-2021, 04:21 PM)Birdman1811 Wrote:
(02-16-2021, 04:13 PM)woodman Wrote: The concept for me of some form of health passport is very disturbing. It's potentially discriminatory on so many levels not least for those people who can't have certain vaccinations or treatment because of their age, gender, race, health etc. Imagine insurance companies getting it etc..

It is also so much big brother hammer to crack a nut policy as to be ridiculous. Anybody advocating one should stay in lockdown forever as they must be so scared to even enter a plane or a nightclub with other people. Honestly.

Notwithstanding all that, bored billionaires like Bill Gates, who after 30yrs in computing, think they are now experts in epidemiology, climate change and the future of food and medicine will no doubt continue to push for this kind of thing and unfortunately that day will inevitably come. I home it's not in mine or my family's lifetime.

So Fuck off Bill. Let those who know do their job. And those requesting a vaccine passport do one too.

He doesn't pretend to be an expert. He listens to them and funds more money into research than many governments.

I never get the hate for Bill Gates, well, other than from the computing standpoint. Has given back absolute fortunes.

I don't hate him. And him funding computers for all and some of the other big causes he has have been excellent. 

But some of his funding to many companies has had dubious output and creates certain behaviours in companies that aren't always good..
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#27
Looks increasingly like there is evidence the vaccine reduces the spread of the virus. Imo this makes health and care workers resistance / refusal to get vaccinated completely incompatible to the work they undertake. Early Signs

Imo if proven in general those refusing unless medically advised to not take the jab would be showing contempt for society.

I know my rights...regardless
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#28
(02-21-2021, 04:38 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Looks increasingly like there is evidence the vaccine reduces the spread of the virus. Imo this makes health and care workers resistance / refusal to get vaccinated completely incompatible to the work they undertake. Early Signs

Imo if proven in general those refusing unless medically advised to not take the jab would be showing contempt for society.

I know my rights...regardless
I have had covid and being one of  the lucky ones i am ok  ( apart from long covid symtems)  so i know  at the moment it aint going to kill me 
i am  going to take the jab not for myself but hoping it will lessen the risk  for someone else that maybe more vunerable than me 
If our mindset is to help others then the more quickly we can get back to a near normal life
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#29
There are vaccinations that we are given in childhood such as MMR that prevent illnesses that are not necessarily life-threatening to 'everyone' but also help maintain herd immunity in order to protect the majority of society, including those who somehow fail to have those vaccinations, either through choice (?) or falling through the net. I think most people would agree that such vaccinations are, while not compulsory, vital (apart from the insane, fully medically discredited and now over there in the US dolloping out his bonkers and dangerous theories (to the equally bonkers) the struck-off, no longer a doctor, Andrew Wakefield). I understand people being uncertain about the vaccine, and to a degree those who want to wait to see just how safe it is - for how long will they wait? - but I think Keef is absolutely right. In a society we have a responsibility to others and not just ourselves and so I feel it incumbent on the majority to be vaccinated with very few exceptions.

And the simple fact is people can argue as much as they like about vaccine passports but there will be countries that won't let you in in the future unless you have had the jab. The arguments about the rights and wrongs of such matters will become irrelevant if you want to travel unless you choose only countries that don't mind you not having the jab (Byelorussia anyone?) An absolutely committed anti-vaccer (I may have posted this before) near me suddenly changed her mind and admitted she will have the job when offered. No one could understand why until she somewhat stutteringly admitted she had family in Australia she wanted to visit. Collapse of stout party.
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#30
It's simple if you don't wa t to be restricted on your day to day movement and in your workplace you have the jab...... Put it this way if everyone had the attitude of I'm not having it we will be in lockdown for ever... Like it or lump it I say.
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