In answer to the ageist Dekka
#1
Re: your ageist rant on the UK Covid death toll thread. This is far from first time you have had a dig at “Selfish, indulgent, politically inept, racist baby boomers”. 

Well here is an answer to some of the rants you have made about 'boomers' and this is one thread you can’t delete because it is uncomfortable reading for you and because it shows up your hypocrisy and ageism. (I still have my post which prompted you to delete a thread within minutes) Strange you decry racism but are perfectly happy to indulge in constant ageism.

When we started work, we didn’t earn full pay until we reached 21 years of age so had little disposable income to waste on disposable stuff made by kids in far off places for next to no wages. Which generation is encouraging that?
 So, boomers ‘created’ an unstable job market? Unemployment in the early to mid-eighties touched 12%, over 10% in early nineties.  Not been near that since. I suppose the workers in the 20s and 30s thought they had a” stable Job market” did they? Low paid workers didn’t have available Working Tax Credit either until 2003. A benefit instigated by ‘Boomer’ age politics.

We are told Boomers ruined the planet and it’s the millennials and Gen Xs who are having to deal with it. Oh yeah, “Diesel SUVs/ 4x4s accounted for 21.2% of total vehicles sold in the UK last year, up from 6.6% in 2009 and 13.5% in 2015. In total, 1.8 million 4x4s have been sold in the past four years” that’s really thinking of the planet They alone are outselling electric cars by 31 to 1.  By age we drive the following types mostly:
Boomers: Micra, Astra, Prius and Civic.
Gen X:    SUV, Mercs C class, BMW 3 series, Astra, Mini. So, who is helping ruin the environment more?
 
Who is “wailing at their normal changing”?  You are one of the most vociferous on here calling to get to a stage where the aged can get back to normality. Take a look at the pictures of anti-lockdown protesters, can’t see many 65-year olds plus amongst em. So please show me where all these boomers are wailing. Up until this year you spent three years actively yearning for the older generation to die off so, when you got your, much bleated for, third referendum (Sorry, ‘People’s vote’.), you would get the outcome you want. Now you are doing much gnashing of teeth because some Generation X and millennials are suggesting abandoning the elderly and vulnerable to their fate and carrying on as normal. Again, which generation is being selfish?

Between 1975 and 1990 the UK was involved in one war (short military engagement really). The result of a UK overseas territory being invaded. Since 1990 we have participated in 4 (5 if you count The War on Terror). We have also supported, militarily, one of the sides in both Somalia and Libya. 
The overwhelming majority of MPs since the year 2000 have been under 60 years of age, so which generation is causing todays problems?

It was the Boomer generation that paid off the majority of the Land Lease Debt. So, we were saddled with our forebear’s debts. As were the people in the thirties. That is not a new phenomenon.

I think it fair to say the majority of lockdown breakers and stockpilers were not born before 1964. A study published in Psychological Science suggests that people are becoming MORE self-centred. Here’s a shock for you Dekka, a quote in your favourite rag by Catherine Bennett in 2013, “The main parties all appear equally keen on promoting selfish individualism – to everyone's detriment”.

I presume you don’t think, then, that people of any previous generation had the right to improve their lot? Which generations fought and struggled for the rights and benefits you now enjoy?
I also don’t need a rabid left-wing misery who hides his ageism behind his political mantras and who constantly moans about himself, possibly, being worse off giving me a lecture on selfishness.

“Humans are capable of an incredible depth of ingratitude. Most never think about the debt we owe to our industrial predecessors. Except when the things they gave are suddenly taken away”.  Prof. Patrick Allitt. Ph.D. (A, more than, reputable historian"
(Links to Stats and pics available)
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#2
He has a good point Dekka "By then of course it won't matter to them as they will be long gone" isn't a good look on you. I can safely say there are a fair amount of all age groups that are damaging the country at the moment.
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#3
(12-15-2020, 03:31 PM)JOK Wrote: Re: your ageist rant on the UK Covid death toll thread. This is far from first time you have had a dig at “Selfish, indulgent, politically inept, racist baby boomers”. 

Well here is an answer to some of the rants you have made about 'boomers' and this is one thread you can’t delete because it is uncomfortable reading for you and because it shows up your hypocrisy and ageism. (I still have my post which prompted you to delete a thread within minutes) Strange you decry racism but are perfectly happy to indulge in constant ageism.

When we started work, we didn’t earn full pay until we reached 21 years of age so had little disposable income to waste on disposable stuff made by kids in far off places for next to no wages. Which generation is encouraging that?
 So, boomers ‘created’ an unstable job market? Unemployment in the early to mid-eighties touched 12%, over 10% in early nineties.  Not been near that since. I suppose the workers in the 20s and 30s thought they had a” stable Job market” did they? Low paid workers didn’t have available Working Tax Credit either until 2003. A benefit instigated by ‘Boomer’ age politics.

We are told Boomers ruined the planet and it’s the millennials and Gen Xs who are having to deal with it. Oh yeah, “Diesel SUVs/ 4x4s accounted for 21.2% of total vehicles sold in the UK last year, up from 6.6% in 2009 and 13.5% in 2015. In total, 1.8 million 4x4s have been sold in the past four years” that’s really thinking of the planet They alone are outselling electric cars by 31 to 1.  By age we drive the following types mostly:
Boomers: Micra, Astra, Prius and Civic.
Gen X:    SUV, Mercs C class, BMW 3 series, Astra, Mini. So, who is helping ruin the environment more?
 
Who is “wailing at their normal changing”?  You are one of the most vociferous on here calling to get to a stage where the aged can get back to normality. Take a look at the pictures of anti-lockdown protesters, can’t see many 65-year olds plus amongst em. So please show me where all these boomers are wailing. Up until this year you spent three years actively yearning for the older generation to die off so, when you got your, much bleated for, third referendum (Sorry, ‘People’s vote’.), you would get the outcome you want. Now you are doing much gnashing of teeth because some Generation X and millennials are suggesting abandoning the elderly and vulnerable to their fate and carrying on as normal. Again, which generation is being selfish?

Between 1975 and 1990 the UK was involved in one war (short military engagement really). The result of a UK overseas territory being invaded. Since 1990 we have participated in 4 (5 if you count The War on Terror). We have also supported, militarily, one of the sides in both Somalia and Libya. 
The overwhelming majority of MPs since the year 2000 have been under 60 years of age, so which generation is causing todays problems?

It was the Boomer generation that paid off the majority of the Land Lease Debt. So, we were saddled with our forebear’s debts. As were the people in the thirties. That is not a new phenomenon.

I think it fair to say the majority of lockdown breakers and stockpilers were not born before 1964. A study published in Psychological Science suggests that people are becoming MORE self-centred. Here’s a shock for you Dekka, a quote in your favourite rag by Catherine Bennett in 2013, “The main parties all appear equally keen on promoting selfish individualism – to everyone's detriment”.

I presume you don’t think, then, that people of any previous generation had the right to improve their lot? Which generations fought and struggled for the rights and benefits you now enjoy?
I also don’t need a rabid left-wing misery who hides his ageism behind his political mantras and who constantly moans about himself, possibly, being worse off giving me a lecture on selfishness.

“Humans are capable of an incredible depth of ingratitude. Most never think about the debt we owe to our industrial predecessors. Except when the things they gave are suddenly taken away”.  Prof. Patrick Allitt. Ph.D. (A, more than, reputable historian"
(Links to Stats and pics available)

What are you on about? The post wasn’t ageist. My point was those making bad decisions will have left their positions or moved on by the time history is written. It had nothing to do with age unless you’re going to say history is ageist because it’s written some time after events happen. Show me where I have blamed or even mentioned the elderly as responsible for the pandemic? I have defended their rights to protection for almost a year.

I have never blamed any age group for the spread of the pandemic least of all the old or vulnerable. I have been on their side throughout this pandemic. You have completely made up something Absolute nonsense.
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#4
(12-15-2020, 03:46 PM)baggy1 Wrote: He has a good point Dekka "By then of course it won't matter to them as they will be long gone" isn't a good look on you. I can safely say there are a fair amount of all age groups that are damaging the country at the moment.

Come on B1. I never mentioned age groups I said selfish people. Since when did saying ‘ When the dust settles on this and other matters linked to this administration it won't look favourably on them or some in society. By then of course it won't matter to them as they will be long gone.’ To clarify when we (history) looks back on how we handled Covid and other problems. I doubt it will look favourably on this current administration (you are as big a critic as me) or those who have acted selfishly. Those making those decisions will be long gone either after leaving office or moving on or longer term have passed away and I include myself in that. Where did I say older people? This is just nonsense

I have never said older people are to blame for spreading the virus. I have defended for nine months the rights of older people and the most vulnerable when others have been trying to convince others that things should go back to normal and they should just lock themselves away until a vaccine is found. You know this so I am disappointed that you have fell into the trap of believing this nonsense..

Here’s the full quote...

Quote:Apparently (WHO figures) we are still 6th worst in terms of confirmed cases currently and we are an island! I remember the posters sneering at comparing us to Italy and Spain in terms of how we are handling the situation and now we are ahead of them, they are conspicuous by their absence. English Exceptionalism is a powerful thing it seems. It's able to withstand reason and fact without batting an eyelid. 

The last 4.5yrs has made me realise how gullible and easily manipulated some of our population are not to mention pathologically selfish. People would rather look to conspiracy theorists on Twitter and Facebook, or seek out marginalised science and medical professionals to back up their BELIEF as it's just easier to accept. When the dust settles on this and other matters linked to this administration it won't look favourably on them or some in society. By then of course it won't matter to them as they will be long gone.
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#5
It's a decent post, JOK. (Re the boomer bad press). I once pointed out to a contemporary that youngsters had it hard now and was trampled underfoot by his response. It certainly made me think again.
My own circumstances for example, mine was the last year you left school at 15. I had already had paper rounds, milk rounds and various other jobs at school so work (well, earning cash!) was something I actually liked. 5 and a half days was normally expected of you with Saturday as overtime, (it had been part of the working week before).I've always got my hands dirty, have mastered a couple of trades and do my own repairs instead of relying on cheap imported labour. I went through the Thatcher recession by working away as there simply weren't any jobs in the Black Country. I got my first mortgage aged 27, I know that would be young to get one now but remember, I'd been working 12 years, no gap years or uni. The mortgage rate promptly went through the roof, it wasn't 1% back then, 13 to 15% was the norm. I've been self employed for most of this time, no 5 weeks a year holiday nor sick pay, nor early retirement for me. I'm not whinging, it's been good and I've been lucky with my health. Over my working life I've contributed to the NHS and helped pay off some of the debts incurred in the last World War. At least I didn't have to go and fight. I've had cars for years, always paid for. I buy clothes that cost a little more and are not disposable and made by children or forced labour and never turn up the heating while walking round the house in my boxers. I also eat whatever is put in front of me and waste nothing. If we have a takeaway, I'll get it myself and not depend on a gang of kids cruising round for Deliveroo (or whatever). I like my life just the way it is.
Where I know have been lucky; I'll always be grateful for having the security of a council house to grow up in. For having free healthcare and education. For not having to go to war. It certainly isn't an easy life but I'd be a lot more content if the next generations made a few things, mended a few things, didn't need so many new things and didn't try to find an App for anything that appears difficult.
Just some ramblings!
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#6
(12-15-2020, 07:11 PM)Tom Joad Wrote: It's a decent post, JOK. (Re the boomer bad press). I once pointed out to a contemporary that youngsters had it hard now and was trampled underfoot by his response. It certainly made me think again.
My own circumstances for example, mine was the last year you left school at 15. I had already had paper rounds, milk rounds and various other jobs at school so work (well, earning cash!) was something I actually liked. 5 and a half days was normally expected of you with Saturday as overtime, (it had been part of the working week before).I've always got my hands dirty, have mastered a couple of trades and do my own repairs instead of relying on cheap imported labour.  I went through the Thatcher recession by working away as there simply weren't any jobs in the Black Country. I got my first mortgage aged 27, I know that would be young to get one now but remember, I'd been working 12 years, no gap years or uni. The mortgage rate promptly went through the roof, it wasn't  1% back then, 13 to 15% was the norm. I've been self employed for most of this time, no 5 weeks a year holiday nor sick pay, nor early retirement for me. I'm not whinging, it's been good and I've been lucky with my health. Over my working life I've contributed to the NHS and helped pay off some of the debts incurred in the last World War. At least I didn't have to go and fight.  I've had cars for years, always paid for. I buy clothes that cost a little more and are not disposable and made by children or forced labour and never turn up the heating while walking round the house in my boxers. I also eat whatever is put in front of me and waste nothing. If we have a takeaway, I'll get it myself and not depend on a gang of kids cruising round for Deliveroo (or whatever). I like my life just the way it is.
Where I know have been lucky;  I'll always be grateful for having the security of a council house to grow up in. For having free healthcare and education. For not having to go to war. It certainly isn't an easy life but I'd be a lot more content if the next generations made a few things, mended a few things, didn't need so many new things and didn't try to find an App for anything that appears difficult.
Just some ramblings!

Can you please point out anywhere on the thread Covid Thread where I mentioned older people or baby boomers in the reply to B1? Quote above.
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#7
Derek, I didn't bring you into it. It is, however, a common theme to "blame the last lot". To change the world we all need to pull together and not point fingers.
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#8
As a Millennial, knowing that you will be the first generation to be worse off than your parents through no fault of your own is tough to take. I don't really think it's any deeper than that.
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#9
(12-15-2020, 06:26 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(12-15-2020, 03:46 PM)baggy1 Wrote: He has a good point Dekka "By then of course it won't matter to them as they will be long gone" isn't a good look on you. I can safely say there are a fair amount of all age groups that are damaging the country at the moment.

Come on B1.  I never mentioned age groups I said selfish people. Since when did saying ‘ When the dust settles on this and other matters linked to this administration it won't look favourably on them or some in society. By then of course it won't matter to them as they will be long gone.’ To clarify when we (history) looks back on how we handled Covid and other problems. I doubt it will look favourably on this current administration (you are as big a critic as me) or those who have acted selfishly. Those making those decisions will be long gone either after leaving office or moving on or longer term have passed away and I include myself in that. Where did I say older people? This is just nonsense

I have never said older people are to blame for spreading the virus. I have defended for nine months the rights of older people and the most vulnerable when others have been trying to convince others that things should go back to normal and they should just lock themselves away until a vaccine is found. You know this so I am disappointed that you have fell into the trap of believing this nonsense.. 

Here’s the full quote...

Quote:Apparently (WHO figures) we are still 6th worst in terms of confirmed cases currently and we are an island! I remember the posters sneering at comparing us to Italy and Spain in terms of how we are handling the situation and now we are ahead of them, they are conspicuous by their absence. English Exceptionalism is a powerful thing it seems. It's able to withstand reason and fact without batting an eyelid. 

The last 4.5yrs has made me realise how gullible and easily manipulated some of our population are not to mention pathologically selfish. People would rather look to conspiracy theorists on Twitter and Facebook, or seek out marginalised science and medical professionals to back up their BELIEF as it's just easier to accept. When the dust settles on this and other matters linked to this administration it won't look favourably on them or some in society. By then of course it won't matter to them as they will be long gone.

Fair enough Dekka and I misread the last sentence thinking you were referring to old codgers keeling over, when reading it again you're talking about the morons in the cabinet. 

I think JOK may be a bit trigger happy on this one, we've all done it, me more than most.
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#10
(12-16-2020, 08:32 AM)Ted Maul Wrote: As a Millennial, knowing that you will be the first generation to be worse off than your parents through no fault of your own is tough to take. I don't really think it's any deeper than that.

You know that? How?

That's an incredibly fatalistic attitude.

Don't get me wrong, the Boomers (I'm Gen X btw) were incredibly extractive during the 80's 90's & 00's - but many, like my dearly departed folks, came from post war backgrounds we'd now consider exceptionally austere. My mother's family lived in two rooms in Sparkbrook until they moved into a council house in Garretts Green.
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