Conspiracy Theories, falsehoods & Social Media

[baggiebuckster]

I think we live in a world where everyone seems eager to paint others as an extremist if they don't share their views. For example:

Cautious about the vaccine - Anti Vaxxer
Question the tiers/lockdowns - Covid Denier
BLM versus Black Lives Matter - Racist

I said the other day that people's views are painted as being at point A or point Z. There seems to be no in-between allowed since there is no label for those people.

[Derek Hardballs]

I think we live in a world where everyone seems eager to paint others as an extremist if they don't share their views. For example:

Cautious about the vaccine - Anti Vaxxer
Question the tiers/lockdowns - Covid Denier
BLM versus Black Lives Matter - Racist

I said the other day that people's views are painted as being at point A or point Z. There seems to be no in-between allowed since there is no label for those people.

There is a grain of truth in what you say but the rise in conspiracy theory believers, anti-vaccine misinformation spreaders / believers etc cannot be dismissed as just others labelling them harshly.

[Protheroe]

WTF happened to people's critical thinking?

Oh my days

This from someone whose critical thinking is akin to...

Coming from someone who's never had an opinion that wouldn't be at safely home on the uber-coventional straitjacket groupthink of the Guardian letters page I'll take that as a compliment. 

Free your mind, and your ass will follow - as Bill Clinton once said.

[baggy1]

Here's an example of a falsehood that gets applied with covid and seems plausible on the face of it - There are more deaths this year because the population is higher so you have to take into account population growth. At 1st view this seems logical there's more people than there were 5 years ago therefore more people will die, however when you actually look at this it's bullshit for one simple reason, there are more people because less people die.

Births over the last 20 years have averaged out at about 670k but in both 2018 and 2019 the birth rate was below that figure by quite a bit (640k in 2019 and 657k in 2018), so with deaths generally the same each year (average for the last 5 years was 532k with 527k in 2019 and 539k in 2018, that only leaves net immigration left which is minimal in comparison to population (net 313k in year to March 2019, and likely to be much less than that since).

So there is a quote going round (Billy used it on here) that you have to inflate the previous year's death rate to allow for population growth - It's absolute bullshit but a falsehood that is being used to deflate the actual level of deaths through covid in 2020. Dangerous.

[Derek Hardballs]

WTF happened to people's critical thinking?

Oh my days

This from someone whose critical thinking is akin to...

Coming from someone who's never had an opinion that wouldn't be at safely home on the uber-coventional straitjacket groupthink of the Guardian letters page I'll take that as a compliment. 

Free your mind, and your ass will follow - as Bill Clinton once said.

I’m intrigued what crazy lefty opinions have I got? These are my main opinions on this board..

• Austerity created more problems than it solved in Health, Education, Communities and Law and Order
  
• Brexit was a shit idea with no tangible benefits for most of the population
  
• I can see little or no improvements in society since 2010 
  
• The latest incarnation of the Tory Party has made the distortion of fact an industrial operation. As they have the avoidance of accountability. 
  
• Cronyism is rife within the government (strangely at that level you’re comfortable with this, but at a local level say Sandwell you’re very vociferously against it). 
  

Hardly controversial or particularly left of centre opinions.

[Ted Maul]

WTF happened to people's critical thinking?

Oh my days

This from someone whose critical thinking is akin to...

Coming from someone who's never had an opinion that wouldn't be at safely home on the uber-coventional straitjacket groupthink of the Guardian letters page I'll take that as a compliment. 

Free your mind, and your ass will follow - as Bill Clinton once said.

I’m intrigued what crazy lefty opinions have I got? These are my main opinions on this board..

Austerity created more problems than it solved in Health, Education, Communities and Law and Order
Brexit was a shit idea with no tangible benefits for most of the population
I can see little or no improvements in society since 2010 
The latest incarnation of the Tory Party has made the distortion of fact an industrial operation. As they have the avoidance of accountability. 
Cronyism is rife within the government (strangely at this level you’re comfortable with this, but at a local level say Sandwell you’re very vociferous). 

Hardly controversial or particularly left of centre opinions.

Marxist, you.

[Protheroe]

WTF happened to people's critical thinking?

Oh my days

This from someone whose critical thinking is akin to...

Coming from someone who's never had an opinion that wouldn't be at safely home on the uber-coventional straitjacket groupthink of the Guardian letters page I'll take that as a compliment. 

Free your mind, and your ass will follow - as Bill Clinton once said.

I’m intrigued what crazy lefty opinions have I got? These are my main opinions on this board..

• Austerity created more problems than it solved in Health, Education, Communities and Law and Order
  
• Brexit was a shit idea with no tangible benefits for most of the population
  
• I can see little or no improvements in society since 2010 
  
• The latest incarnation of the Tory Party has made the distortion of fact an industrial operation. As they have the avoidance of accountability. 
  
• Cronyism is rife within the government (strangely at that level you’re comfortable with this, but at a local level say Sandwell you’re very vociferously against it). 
  

Hardly controversial or particularly left of centre opinions.

Yes, uber-coventional straitjacket groupthink of the Guardian letters page. Never any different. I doubt you've had an orginal thought in your life. Who mentioned crazy lefty opinions? Not me.

[ChamonixBaggie]

I think Proth's finally lost it

[JOK]

 These are my main opinions on this board..

• 1, Brexit was a shit idea with no tangible benefits for most of the population1
  2, I can see little or no improvements in society since 2010 
  3, Cronyism is rife within the government

1,Your Opinion. Yet to be determined in the short or long term.
 
2, For starters.
UK carbon emissions reduced by 29%.
£136.5 billion reduction in the country’s deficit. (holds good for when you originally posed the question)
A reduction of 1,147,000 in unemployment among people aged 16 and over.
Ban on Letting agent fees.
Homeless Reduction Bill Act 2017, (A private members bill presented by Conservative MP Bob Blackman.)
Parents who lose a child will receive two weeks' paid bereavement leave.
Starting to undo ‘Beeching’ cuts to the railways.
Ban on exporting plastic waste.
Everyone permanently injured in NI trouble will receive compensation / pensions for life. Bringing forward the ban on petrol and diesel  car sales.
Tree planting has risen significantly.
Banning the sale of new Leasehold houses.
Abolishing of VAT on sanitary products. (Couldn’t be done in E.U.)
Abolishing V.A.T on books and academic journals.
Neonatal pay for parents of premature babies.
Larger toilets for disabled compulsory from 2021.
More Afghan interpreters allowed to settle.
Law to make it illegal to buy crops grown on illegally felled rainforests.
So Tunna Blair signed up to the UN aid spending target of 0.5% of GDP. In 2005. But it was only achieved by 2013 under the Cameron led (Tory) government.
An extra £40 million for U.K. environment.
Farm subsidies to be taken off the largest and richest landowners and paid to encourage ‘greener’ measures such as more hedges, trees and wet lands. Under the outgoing EU system, farmers got taxpayers' money based on the amount of land they farm. So, in many cases, that has meant the richer the farmers, the bigger the grant they get. The new system, named Environmental Land Management (ELM), will pay farmers if they prevent floods, plant woods and help wildlife.
 
3, Already demonstrated on a previous thread that that is certainly nothing unique to this incarnation of government. (Study many of W.S. Gilberts librettos and lyrics.  Especially ‘When I was a Lad’ particularly the fourth verse and that was written in 1878!

[Borin' Baggie]

 These are my main opinions on this board..

• 1, Brexit was a shit idea with no tangible benefits for most of the population12, I can see little or no improvements in society since 2010 3, Cronyism is rife within the government

[quote pid="249940" dateline="1607642888"]
UK carbon emissions reduced by 29%

Way lower than it could and should have been if not for the Tories crusade on removing Lib Dem environmental legislation. I honestly don't see how this is a plus given how much better it should be, why did we ban onshore wind farms and why have the Tories not used the gift of a platform given to them by Ed Davey on how to structure the energy market?

£136.5 billion reduction in the country’s deficit. (holds good for when you originally posed the question)

I don't think Dekka or a lot of people that lean left or even in the centre will agree that this is a good thing given the cuts made to achieve it, not to mention some of the dodgy statistics to move around and hide public expenditure over the last 10 years. And this is coming someone who is against governments ever running a deficit.

Starting to undo ‘Beeching’ cuts to the railways.

This actually started under Thatcher and Blair was Prime Minister when the big reopenings like the Chiltern Line happened.

A reduction of 1,147,000 in unemployment among people aged 16 and over.

I really wouldn't take much stock in that number, there's been a serious issue with how unemployment has been tracked with a stupid number of genuinely unemployed people classed as economically inactive. To be honest unemployment rates and numbers full stop are a terrible metric at they're so easily gamed, median wage increases are much better. The OECD have even insinuated that there are more unemployed people now than in 2010 by virtue of the changes.

Homeless Reduction Bill Act 2017, (A private members bill presented by Conservative MP Bob Blackman.) 

Presented to avoid anything tangible being put forward to address social housing and welfare issues that are the root causes, as such despite the fluffy name this bill has done practically nothing. Homelessness has gone up since this bill has been in effect.

Banning the sale of new Leasehold houses.

Is this a good thing? I see it to be pointless state interference in the housing sector that is designed to spare the blushes of idiots. There are benefits to leaseholds, there should have been a focus on the issue of ground rents instead of banning them.

Abolishing of VAT on sanitary products. (Couldn’t be done in E.U.)

This isn't true in the slightest, we could remove VAT on them while we were a member, as attested by it being zero-rated while we're still within the EU tax framework. In fact, if not for the bloody Conservatives blocking a Lib Dem bill on the issue it would have been brought through way earlier.

Abolishing V.A.T on books and academic journals.

Are you on about e-publications? Printed publications were already VAT exempt. Just after a clarification.

So Tunna Blair signed up to the UN aid spending target of 0.5% of GDP. In 2005. But it was only achieved by 2013 under the Cameron led (Tory) government.

Can you please not give credit to the Conservatives for something that the Lib Dems were responsible for in coalition? Seeing the Tories take credit for this, gay marriage, the income tax allowance, offshore wind farms, pupil premium etc really pisses me off seeing as if the Tories had a majority they wouldn't have been put forward by the government.

Farm subsidies to be taken off the largest and richest landowners and paid to encourage ‘greener’ measures such as more hedges, trees and wet lands. Under the outgoing EU system, farmers got taxpayers' money based on the amount of land they farm. So, in many cases, that has meant the richer the farmers, the bigger the grant they get. The new system, named Environmental Land Management (ELM), will pay farmers if they prevent floods, plant woods and help wildlife.

Under the recently agreed incoming CAP reform we're essentially going to have a very similar system as the EU with respect to subsidising farmers though. So I'm not sure this is much of a benefit of the last 10 years as we'd be in the same position were we not leaving the EU. In fact, getting rid of CAP would be one of the only two benefits of leaving the EU in my opinion but we're not doing that.

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