The way forward???
#71
(10-20-2020, 01:27 PM)baggy1 Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 11:07 AM)billybassett Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 10:37 AM)baggy1 Wrote: What makes you think him demanding funds to support a local lockdown (supporting business, increasing test and trace, providing extra police to monitor the lockdown) is rolling over - he shouldn't have had to ask for this, we are in a pandemic, it should be automated support when the government is imposing lockdowns. Would you have preferred Manchester to get to 200m in debt?

I have no trouble with him demanding funds for a local lockdown if a local lockdown is required.

A week a go he said he wouldn't roll over for any cheque. If he had any bollocks and looked at the data in the 10 days he's been haggling he'd see it's slowed and flattened and he should be demanding no lockdown because one is not required.

As for the council's debt that's longstanding so as mayor perhaps he best take a look more closely at how they spend money.

He's been stitched up good and proper here. Very naive politicking where he gets a few quid but serves his people so poorly it's unbelievable.

Any comment now?

Let's see what Bojo says at 5.

(10-20-2020, 02:33 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 11:27 AM)billybassett Wrote: Here's a video of the Irish Interim Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre being asked what constitutes a covid case.

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

This is going on globally and without doubt in the UK. No other institute could get away with such corruption of numbers and cause the harm they are.

Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

Plus they're now looking for cases in Staffordshire I believe. They're encouraging anyone WITHOUT symptoms to get tested at a number of their sites.

If people can't see how absolutely astonishing this is then I'm lost for words. In what sane world would you hunt to try and find a respiratory virus in the healthy population fullstop, but then with a PCR test that's clearly unfit for purpose.

I literally give up.

Finally seems like the penny may be dropping in Ireland about the complete unreliability of the PCR test:

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coro...idance.pdf

No doubt may well change their testing guidelines.

Some hope in an otherwise bleak outlook.
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#72
(10-20-2020, 02:33 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 11:27 AM)billybassett Wrote: Here's a video of the Irish Interim Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre being asked what constitutes a covid case.

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

This is going on globally and without doubt in the UK. No other institute could get away with such corruption of numbers and cause the harm they are.

Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

You haven't made anything up, you've just read it in the MSN or on social media, but you are missing a big point. This was the same in March and April and we are comparing like with like (the measurement highlighted in the video was being used then and is being used now) therefore if it was a problem in April / May then it will likely be  problem again this winter. Or are you saying it wasn't a problem in April / May and the 54k excess deaths weren't anything to do with covid.
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#73
(10-19-2020, 06:43 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Pick your science and pick your stats to fit your belief.

If you take almost any statistic and torture it endlessly, you eventually reach the answer that supports the point or the
view that you wish to make. This works for all sides of the debate by the way.

The sad truth is that most of us have lost faith and trust in the stats and data being produced, far too many agendas and 
far too much money at stake to ever get the honesty we all crave perhaps

To quote Oscar Wilde The truth is rarely pure and never simple  or better still perhaps We are all in the gutter, but some 
of us are looking at the stars
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#74
(10-20-2020, 03:13 PM)baggy1 Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 02:33 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 11:27 AM)billybassett Wrote: Here's a video of the Irish Interim Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre being asked what constitutes a covid case.

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

This is going on globally and without doubt in the UK. No other institute could get away with such corruption of numbers and cause the harm they are.

Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

You haven't made anything up, you've just read it in the MSN or on social media, but you are missing a big point. This was the same in March and April and we are comparing like with like (the measurement highlighted in the video was being used then and is being used now) therefore if it was a problem in April / May then it will likely be  problem again this winter. Or are you saying it wasn't a problem in April / May and the 54k excess deaths weren't anything to do with covid.

It was not the same in March/April which is where this debate started. We discussed that the number of Covid patients in hospital with Covid now is the same as in March. In March/April the only people getting tested in hospital were people who were symptomatic. Now they test people who are asymptomatic also. According to this article they didn't enlist this policy until early May or later.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/all-ho...26.article
Reply
#75
(10-20-2020, 03:13 PM)baggy1 Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 02:33 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 11:27 AM)billybassett Wrote: Here's a video of the Irish Interim Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre being asked what constitutes a covid case.

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

This is going on globally and without doubt in the UK. No other institute could get away with such corruption of numbers and cause the harm they are.

Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

You haven't made anything up, you've just read it in the MSN or on social media, but you are missing a big point. This was the same in March and April and we are comparing like with like (the measurement highlighted in the video was being used then and is being used now) therefore if it was a problem in April / May then it will likely be  problem again this winter. Or are you saying it wasn't a problem in April / May and the 54k excess deaths weren't anything to do with covid.

I think the point is there are 100s of thousands of tests being done each day to find healthy people who have the virus. In March there were 10000 tests a day. People were diagnosing covid on the basis of symptoms not tests and the coroners were able to put covid on certificates 28 days after death.

The fact is deaths have been thankfully negligible since mid Sep and are now flat and reducing due to covid. Unfortunately the deaths due to other causes are increasing and rising. 1700 deaths yesterday on other causes.
Reply
#76
baggiebuckster Wrote:
baggy1 Wrote:
baggiebuckster Wrote:
billybassett Wrote:Here's a video of the Irish Interim Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre being asked what constitutes a covid case.

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

This is going on globally and without doubt in the UK. No other institute could get away with such corruption of numbers and cause the harm they are.

Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

You haven't made anything up, you've just read it in the MSN or on social media, but you are missing a big point. This was the same in March and April and we are comparing like with like (the measurement highlighted in the video was being used then and is being used now) therefore if it was a problem in April / May then it will likely be  problem again this winter. Or are you saying it wasn't a problem in April / May and the 54k excess deaths weren't anything to do with covid.

It was not the same in March/April which is where this debate started. We discussed that the number of Covid patients in hospital with Covid now is the same as in March. In March/April the only people getting tested in hospital were people who were symptomatic. Now they test people who are asymptomatic also. According to this article they didn't enlist this policy until early May or later.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/all-ho...26.article

I'm not sure that is 100% correct. I was told by some one I know (reliably well) that works at Good Hope, that the 1st death attributed to Covid19 there was someone already dead having been treated for other thing(s). Tested after death and reported as Coronavirus. I make no political point here nor I couldn't say how widespread this may be, it is just something told to me at the time.
Reply
#77
(10-20-2020, 04:23 PM)Tom Joad Wrote:
baggiebuckster Wrote:
baggy1 Wrote:
baggiebuckster Wrote:
billybassett Wrote:Here's a video of the Irish Interim Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre being asked what constitutes a covid case.

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

This is going on globally and without doubt in the UK. No other institute could get away with such corruption of numbers and cause the harm they are.

Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

You haven't made anything up, you've just read it in the MSN or on social media, but you are missing a big point. This was the same in March and April and we are comparing like with like (the measurement highlighted in the video was being used then and is being used now) therefore if it was a problem in April / May then it will likely be  problem again this winter. Or are you saying it wasn't a problem in April / May and the 54k excess deaths weren't anything to do with covid.

It was not the same in March/April which is where this debate started. We discussed that the number of Covid patients in hospital with Covid now is the same as in March. In March/April the only people getting tested in hospital were people who were symptomatic. Now they test people who are asymptomatic also. According to this article they didn't enlist this policy until early May or later.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/all-ho...26.article

I'm not sure that is 100% correct. I was told by some one I know (reliably well) that works at Good Hope, that the 1st death attributed to Covid19 there was someone already dead having been treated for other thing(s). Tested after death and reported as Coronavirus. I make no political point here nor I couldn't say how widespread this may be, it is just something told to me at the time.

Maybe they tested after deaths but I am referring to testing upon admission to hospital for other ailments where no Covid symptoms were present. Or a 'Confirmed Covid Case' as they call them which they then use in the figures as 'people in hospital with Covid'.
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#78
baggiebuckster Wrote:
Tom Joad Wrote:
baggiebuckster Wrote:
baggy1 Wrote:
baggiebuckster Wrote:Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

You haven't made anything up, you've just read it in the MSN or on social media, but you are missing a big point. This was the same in March and April and we are comparing like with like (the measurement highlighted in the video was being used then and is being used now) therefore if it was a problem in April / May then it will likely be  problem again this winter. Or are you saying it wasn't a problem in April / May and the 54k excess deaths weren't anything to do with covid.

It was not the same in March/April which is where this debate started. We discussed that the number of Covid patients in hospital with Covid now is the same as in March. In March/April the only people getting tested in hospital were people who were symptomatic. Now they test people who are asymptomatic also. According to this article they didn't enlist this policy until early May or later.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/all-ho...26.article

I'm not sure that is 100% correct. I was told by some one I know (reliably well) that works at Good Hope, that the 1st death attributed to Covid19 there was someone already dead having been treated for other thing(s). Tested after death and reported as Coronavirus. I make no political point here nor I couldn't say how widespread this may be, it is just something told to me at the time.

Maybe they tested after deaths but I am referring to testing upon admission to hospital for other ailments where no Covid symptoms were present. Or a 'Confirmed Covid Case' as they call them which they then use in the figures as 'people in hospital with Covid'.
Yes, after death, I was told.
Reply
#79
(10-20-2020, 03:25 PM)billybassett Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 03:13 PM)baggy1 Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 02:33 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote:
(10-20-2020, 11:27 AM)billybassett Wrote: Here's a video of the Irish Interim Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre being asked what constitutes a covid case.

https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

This is going on globally and without doubt in the UK. No other institute could get away with such corruption of numbers and cause the harm they are.

Shock horror. 

An asymptomatic person admitted to hospital with a broken leg is then counted in the Covid stats if they test positive.

Another story I must have made up.

You haven't made anything up, you've just read it in the MSN or on social media, but you are missing a big point. This was the same in March and April and we are comparing like with like (the measurement highlighted in the video was being used then and is being used now) therefore if it was a problem in April / May then it will likely be  problem again this winter. Or are you saying it wasn't a problem in April / May and the 54k excess deaths weren't anything to do with covid.

I think the point is there are 100s of thousands of tests being done each day to find healthy people who have the virus. In March there were 10000 tests a day. People were diagnosing covid on the basis of symptoms not tests and the coroners were able to put covid on certificates 28 days after death.

The fact is deaths have been thankfully negligible since mid Sep and are now flat and reducing due to covid. Unfortunately the deaths due to other causes are increasing and rising. 1700 deaths yesterday on other causes.

Which unfortunately is about normal - this time of year the average weekly deaths is about 10k+, so 1700 is pretty standard. It's all about how it's phrased that makes it sound so unusual when it isn't. The only abnormality this year is covid (so far, and I do agree deaths through cancer, heart disease and other treatable conditions will probably increase at some point).
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