The way forward???
#1
Right, I didn't want to put this on the main Covid stats thread (from which I have learned far more than by following TV news), so here is some poinst of view.  I'd be interested in other opinions.   Contrary to most on here, I actually would say most people behaved very well during the lockdown. There were the odious panic buyers, the stupid congregators, the opportunist protestors and the selfish daytrippers but by and large people  went along with doing the decent thing. I'm noticing quite a change now. Lockdown fatigue?
Talking to many over the last week, friends, family, customers and work associates etc. there appears a general consensus we will be going on with this indefinitely with no end in sight.  The majority (in my simple research), are now all for shielding the elderly and vulnerable while allowing everyone else to go about their business.  All agreed the NHS capacity needs protecting, all agreed the track and trace programme is not ideal and all, without fail, all were hugely worried  about the economy.  So what is the consensus on here to a system whereby the elderly, frail, those with underlying health problems, are encouraged in every way to shield while the virus has it's way with those better equipped to handle it? Genuine question BTW as the more I listen, the less I know.
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#2
(10-18-2020, 05:42 PM)Tom Joad Wrote: Right, I didn't want to put this on the main Covid stats thread (from which I have learned far more than by following TV news), so here is some poinst of view.  I'd be interested in other opinions.   Contrary to most on here, I actually would say most people behaved very well during the lockdown. There were the odious panic buyers, the stupid congregators, the opportunist protestors and the selfish daytrippers but by and large people  went along with doing the decent thing. I'm noticing quite a change now. Lockdown fatigue?
Talking to many over the last week, friends, family, customers and work associates etc. there appears a general consensus we will be going on with this indefinitely with no end in sight.  The majority (in my simple research), are now all for shielding the elderly and vulnerable while allowing everyone else to go about their business.  All agreed the NHS capacity needs protecting, all agreed the track and trace programme is not ideal and all, without fail, all were hugely worried  about the economy.  So what is the consensus on here to a system whereby the elderly, frail, those with underlying health problems, are encouraged in every way to shield while the virus has it's way with those better equipped to handle it? Genuine question BTW as the more I listen, the less I know.

Most respected polls conducted still has the majority in favour of a circuit break lockdown...

To quote 

61% of people across the UK said they would support a full so-called circuit break lockdown
to slow the spread of the virus according to a poll specially commissioned by
@Channel4
and
@ITNProductions
from
@SavantaComRes

The poll showed 48% of people believed restrictions are too relaxed. 60% felt health risks for
themselves & their family were their biggest concern, ahead of the 30% that felt financial risks were their biggest concern.

46% of people believed that financial support should be increased to help save jobs and businesses. When asked about the government’s performance review 48% of people said they thought they were handling it badly. #C4LockdownDebate 3/

[url=https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4][/url]
Pick the bones out of that lot... my conclusion is we have some of the dimmest, most politically ignorant people in the western world if only 48% think this government are handling things badly.
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#3
(10-18-2020, 05:42 PM)Tom Joad Wrote: Right, I didn't want to put this on the main Covid stats thread (from which I have learned far more than by following TV news), so here is some poinst of view.  I'd be interested in other opinions.   Contrary to most on here, I actually would say most people behaved very well during the lockdown. There were the odious panic buyers, the stupid congregators, the opportunist protestors and the selfish daytrippers but by and large people  went along with doing the decent thing. I'm noticing quite a change now. Lockdown fatigue?
Talking to many over the last week, friends, family, customers and work associates etc. there appears a general consensus we will be going on with this indefinitely with no end in sight.  The majority (in my simple research), are now all for shielding the elderly and vulnerable while allowing everyone else to go about their businessAll agreed the NHS capacity needs protecting, all agreed the track and trace programme is not ideal and all, without fail, all were hugely worried  about the economy.  So what is the consensus on here to a system whereby the elderly, frail, those with underlying health problems, are encouraged in every way to shield while the virus has it's way with those better equipped to handle it? Genuine question BTW as the more I listen, the less I know.

I'm not sure that these are both possible.

I have no idea what is the right approach now, but i do know we should be doing everything to avoid the NHS running out of capacity to treat patients who have serious and immediate medical needs.
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#4
My work won't pay me for shielding so it's work for me........ I've had to tell my dad not to go out at all what a fucking way to live in your final years on this earth
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#5
(10-18-2020, 08:35 PM)The liquidator Wrote: My work won't pay me for shielding so it's work for me........ I've had to tell my dad not to go out at all what a fucking way to live in your final years on this earth

That's sad. Sorry.
Mr 2011
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#6
The NHS isn’t under massive strain across the board. Many hospitals are ghost towns. This has been a reset button for a lot of departments. It’s still very easy to get an outpatient appointment or referral. At least it is here.

But this kind of misinformation isn’t helping. The government are clearly withholding information, even from the shadow cabinet, and reporting it late.

What garden-fence and broadsheet political discussion alike CONSISTENTLY IGNORES is that ALL governments manipulate data; after all it’s a prerogative of government (especially unemployment figures and waiting lists, the usual headline grabbers of course), but the sheer scale of manipulation and pre-processing of these prior to publicising is absolutely and completely unprecedented.

But ALL media has an agenda. And that agenda has been UK government ‘sponsored’ since 2010. You know, when all those important A-listers began to complain; and all things politics/press/PR began to get a bit strange. Also around about the time traditionally juxtaposed political nations began to centralise, and their nearby already-centric neighbouring governments began to adopt coaligned governance more commonly.

Meanwhile, what we are seeing is massive, pseudo-emergency policy being ushered-in, back door. Changes to the Mental Health Act since COVID are very worrying indeed for those nearing ‘vulnerable’ age. We now have ID cards, effectively, which private companies are forcing us to use to trade there. We soon won’t have cash, we will have bitcoin for the dodgy; and increasing exchanges in goods and services where we would previously have had simple EFT across the board (see Black Mirror for what happens next, but that won’t be until the council - and not the lender - repossesses and re-lets to you your home). We have to breathe stale air. We have to pay more for sugar (ask why). We abide by curfews without hesitation. We soon won’t be able to attend an event, pub or even a restaurant without Whitehall being told. Travel is being restricted to all but the privileged.

What needs to change is the truth needs to come out. Because if I was Mr Garraway; or some other coma victim of 2020, I would be wondering why I took a blow to the head in Quahog but awoke in Qianshan.

I think people are scared, upset and consequently disobedient because they don’t believe what they are hearing. Meanwhile, Burnham and his ilk we’ve seen before. I hope the naive cunt enjoys the limelight, because they are about to put blood on his hands unless he shuts up. I didn’t think he was about to sacrifice his valuable political momentum quite so cheaply.

Meanwhile, BBC hinting painfully at what’s wrong (all the while kowtowing to the most fiercely-brandished invisible corporate whip it has ever endured), while the rest chant the same predictable counter points, fools no-one any longer. It did, but it doesn’t any more. So we just get BS.

And if we can’t follow the rules, it’s all we’ll get.
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#7
Good post Hawks and generally agree with all of that (with a little less tin foil hat on Wink )

It's been clear that since the dawn of Brexit the political elite have been manipulating the media (trad and social) by balls out lying and I imagine they have been surprised at how much they can get away with. And because they can see that gave them more power they did ramped it up. Don't get me wrong politicians have always lied, or used facts liberally, but never on this level before. You can see this in the current pandemic by the different ways that they have counted covid deaths, either changing the measure - they started with excess deaths (remember the graph) but as soon as it became clear that we were the worst in Europe they dropped that, then went onto death certs with covid on and then those within 28 days - or just not publishing it at all.

In this current situation we are at a point where the cases are rising and more importantly hospitalisations are rising so something has to be done immediately to bring that back down. It won't solve the problem but unfortunately that ship has sailed now, this government are basically 6 months behind with test and trace and by the time they got it running effectively it will become overrun again. I don't agree with the measure of a circuit break but we simply don't have any choice.
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#8
The Japan trade-deal was an enormous shot in the arm to the Brexit negotiating team, which took the Merkel and her motherland completely off guard.

America is only spouting off about NI border because 1) it too is in a huff, and 2) even if it could conceal it which it no longer can, it also can no longer afford to fund the IRA.

Meanwhile we’ve been waving travel restrictions around Europe as a reminder of what they stand to lose. It’s dirty but it’s working.

However he needs another deal besides Japan. It won’t be enough on its own and only partially plugs the massive supply chain and labour gaps a lot of us are already enduring.

If we could afford it it would be a great time to reinvest in manufacturing. We won’t.
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#9
The media are playing people for fools knowing that the majority of people will take their statement at face value without question.

As an example over the last few days the media line is 'more people are in hospital with covid than during the peak in March'. What does this statement imply - it says the situation is really bad and in fact worse than March. It also implies these people are in hospital being treated for covid.

But is that the case? In March people who were admitted to hospital with covid symptoms were tested and then received treatment FOR covid. Now if you go into hospital because you fell over and broke your hip you will get a covid test which if returns as positive puts you in the 'covid stats'. You will NOT be in hospital receiving treatment for covid if you have no symptoms or if you gained a false positive test - you will be in hospital being treated for something else entirely. But that is not the way it is reported - why is that the case I ask?
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#10
The sheer arrogance of their lies, the doubling down on lies when proven to be lying, journalists repeating verbatim government sources without any scrutiny even when proven to be incorrect (Kuensberg take a bow and a peerage perhaps? ) is making this country an embarrassment at every level.

(10-19-2020, 07:39 AM)HawkingsHalfpint Wrote: The Japan trade-deal was an enormous shot in the arm to the Brexit negotiating team, which took the Merkel and her motherland completely off guard.

America is only spouting off about NI border because 1) it too is in a huff, and 2) even if it could conceal it which it no longer can, it also can no longer afford to fund the IRA.

Meanwhile we’ve been waving travel restrictions around Europe as a reminder of what they stand to lose. It’s dirty but it’s working.

However he needs another deal besides Japan. It won’t be enough on its own and only partially plugs the massive supply chain and labour gaps  a lot of us are already enduring.

If we could afford it it would be a great time to reinvest in manufacturing. We won’t.

I wouldn’t get too excited by the Japan deal it’s pretty much the same deal we had when in the EU and is approx 2% of our trade. It also doesn’t address the problem unless there is a deal with regards to parts for cars coming from the EU. As with I imagine all of these deals the other country will be the one to benefit most.
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