These here students
#41
Protheroe Wrote:Until Universities have an honest conversation with students about the value of degrees then nothing will change.

3,000 more kids graduate with a law degree each year than there are legal training contracts in the UK. Most larger law firms prefer to take non-cognate graduates from elite universities and mould them. This has been going on for three decades and is outrageous dishonesty from education providers.

As I said upthread, I'm more than a bit cynical about universities. Of course there are many courses which will lead to excellent careers.  But, many of the courses are for subjects with little opportunity for employment which leave the customer ('cos that 's what they are) in debt. My two that went have no regrets and had a great time. On the other hand, I also had a great time at that age, working on the coast. Plus I came back with no debt and a much broader approach to life than I previously had and enough nous to keep me employed ever since. I would think very carefully before committing to the amount of debt incurred by students now.
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#42
(10-02-2020, 06:16 PM)Tom Joad Wrote:
Protheroe Wrote:Until Universities have an honest conversation with students about the value of degrees then nothing will change.

3,000 more kids graduate with a law degree each year than there are legal training contracts in the UK. Most larger law firms prefer to take non-cognate graduates from elite universities and mould them. This has been going on for three decades and is outrageous dishonesty from education providers.

As I said upthread, I'm more than a bit cynical about universities. Of course there are many courses which will lead to excellent careers.  But, many of the courses are for subjects with little opportunity for employment which leave the customer ('cos that 's what they are) in debt. My two that went have no regrets and had a great time. On the other hand, I also had a great time at that age, working on the coast. Plus I came back with no debt and a much broader approach to life than I previously had and enough nous to keep me employed ever since. I would think very carefully before committing to the amount of debt incurred by students now.

Indeed. You need to go to University for the right reasons. I'll be encouraging my girls to go and study something they're really interested in - forget about it being helpful for employment - and if the system is still the same to take on as much debt as possible as they'll never come close to paying it back unless they're exceptionally succesful in which case it won't matter anyway.
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#43
(10-06-2020, 09:40 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 06:16 PM)Tom Joad Wrote:
Protheroe Wrote:Until Universities have an honest conversation with students about the value of degrees then nothing will change.

3,000 more kids graduate with a law degree each year than there are legal training contracts in the UK. Most larger law firms prefer to take non-cognate graduates from elite universities and mould them. This has been going on for three decades and is outrageous dishonesty from education providers.

As I said upthread, I'm more than a bit cynical about universities. Of course there are many courses which will lead to excellent careers.  But, many of the courses are for subjects with little opportunity for employment which leave the customer ('cos that 's what they are) in debt. My two that went have no regrets and had a great time. On the other hand, I also had a great time at that age, working on the coast. Plus I came back with no debt and a much broader approach to life than I previously had and enough nous to keep me employed ever since. I would think very carefully before committing to the amount of debt incurred by students now.

Indeed. You need to go to University for the right reasons. I'll be encouraging my girls to go and study something they're really interested in - forget about it being helpful for employment - and if the system is still the same to take on as much debt as possible as they'll never come close to paying it back unless they're exceptionally succesful in which case it won't matter anyway.

I know we don't see eye to eye on political matters  - far from it.

But on this i am in total agreement .
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#44
(10-06-2020, 09:40 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 06:16 PM)Tom Joad Wrote:
Protheroe Wrote:Until Universities have an honest conversation with students about the value of degrees then nothing will change.

3,000 more kids graduate with a law degree each year than there are legal training contracts in the UK. Most larger law firms prefer to take non-cognate graduates from elite universities and mould them. This has been going on for three decades and is outrageous dishonesty from education providers.

As I said upthread, I'm more than a bit cynical about universities. Of course there are many courses which will lead to excellent careers.  But, many of the courses are for subjects with little opportunity for employment which leave the customer ('cos that 's what they are) in debt. My two that went have no regrets and had a great time. On the other hand, I also had a great time at that age, working on the coast. Plus I came back with no debt and a much broader approach to life than I previously had and enough nous to keep me employed ever since. I would think very carefully before committing to the amount of debt incurred by students now.

Indeed. You need to go to University for the right reasons. I'll be encouraging my girls to go and study something they're really interested in - forget about it being helpful for employment - and if the system is still the same to take on as much debt as possible as they'll never come close to paying it back unless they're exceptionally succesful in which case it won't matter anyway.

Spot on! I had no idea what I wanted to do after A-levels so my dad encouraged me to go study something I liked - I loved history so did that. Leaving home at 18 is so much more than just getting a degree, you meet so many different people and learn most about stuff you need in life outside of the degree you do. Financially it did me the world of good and my brother who's hobby now is travelling the world watching F1. Always go to Uni if you get the chance and support your kids to.
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#45
I wouldn't think twice about the 'debt' to be honest.

Not taken into account when applying for credit, mortgages anything and more than likely written off if you don't pay it back before you're 40-50 as will be the case with a lot of the youngsters now paying the exorbitant fees. The 'debt' is absolutely not a reason to avoid going to university.
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#46
(09-30-2020, 05:04 PM)billybassett Wrote: My son is locked in a house near his North East university, not allowed to really go out, can't help with freshers week or social events or even attend any, has no lectures or face 2 face education. Yet for that pleasure the £9250 + £5000+ accom + £X living expenses are racked up in student debt.

But it's ok by all accounts because they're young and need to be protected.

Is it bollocks ok. The elder generation has been protected long enough, we should be getting back to normality and living with this virus now because our kids are being well and truly fked over with every passing week. It's a complete joke and anyone with any brains doing a proper Cost & Benefits & Risk appraisal on this country now would see that... but of course we're run by a couple of muppets, social media and 24hr news scaremongering.

My youngest is in his 2nd week as a first year at Newcastle Uni-in the halls where those two poor girls died.   He's been confined to his flat for days-not allowed out-food has to be ordered from Sainsbury's and delivered to the front door.   Fortunately he doesn't have the type of personality to be fazed too much by it, but you do have to wonder how much attention is being paid to the mental health of the more vulnerable people.   Saw an interview with the VC of Newcastle Uni on their local news on Monday and he seemed more interested in pointing ut that the 2 girls had only been there for 48 hours and rabbiting on about his own kids than anything else.  We've had a very poor experience with first year pastoral care with another of our kids at a different university-I wouldn't be confident about the support that's on offer in this case.   Poor all round for the money they charge.
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#47
(10-07-2020, 07:43 AM)HeavyWoollenBaggie Wrote:
(09-30-2020, 05:04 PM)billybassett Wrote: My son is locked in a house near his North East university, not allowed to really go out, can't help with freshers week or social events or even attend any, has no lectures or face 2 face education. Yet for that pleasure the £9250 + £5000+ accom + £X living expenses are racked up in student debt.

But it's ok by all accounts because they're young and need to be protected.

Is it bollocks ok. The elder generation has been protected long enough, we should be getting back to normality and living with this virus now because our kids are being well and truly fked over with every passing week. It's a complete joke and anyone with any brains doing a proper Cost & Benefits & Risk appraisal on this country now would see that... but of course we're run by a couple of muppets, social media and 24hr news scaremongering.

My youngest is in his 2nd week as a first year at Newcastle Uni-in the halls where those two poor girls died.   He's been confined to his flat for days-not allowed out-food has to be ordered from Sainsbury's and delivered to the front door.   Fortunately he doesn't have the type of personality to be fazed too much by it, but you do have to wonder how much attention is being paid to the mental health of the more vulnerable people.   Saw an interview with the VC of Newcastle Uni on their local news on Monday and he seemed more interested in pointing ut that the 2 girls had only been there for 48 hours and rabbiting on about his own kids than anything else.  We've had a very poor experience with first year pastoral care with another of our kids at a different university-I wouldn't be confident about the support that's on offer in this case.   Poor all round for the money they charge.

The really worrying thing is that there are often 1 or 2 18 year olds who go to uni (at each uni) who have a lot of issues going on before they get there, then this is compounded if they dont immediately find/make friends and settle in to the routine and lifetstyle. They then commit suicide. It's so important for universities to have professionals visiting each student stuck in halls checking on their mental health. Not only for the sake of their students but their income because they may have their arses sued off them in such circumstances re duty of care. Also students should take copies of the uni websites and any literature they publish boasting all they offer to students - collectively then get together after this event  and sue them for compensation for the uni selling them a vision which they haven't delivered on. If every student puts a £10 in i bet they could get some good representation in court. Good luck anyway.
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#48
Agree 100%.   In the case of our middle son the care was left to a pathetically inadequate academic tutor who couldn't look after himself, let alone young adults.    This should clearly be the domain of trained professionals, particularly for the amount of money they charge.   I'm astonished they get away with it to be honest-it borders on criminal negligence in the worst cases.
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