The National Debt
#11
(09-18-2020, 10:59 AM)FenlandBoing Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:21 AM)Brentbaggie Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 06:23 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Erm. We own a lot of it in our pensions guys.

What's this "we" and "pensions" bit?

LOL he's on about himself and those blokes that bought Rover!

Anybody who has a pension is likely to have some measure of Gilts. What do you think they are?
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#12
(09-18-2020, 11:00 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:59 AM)FenlandBoing Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:21 AM)Brentbaggie Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 06:23 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Erm. We own a lot of it in our pensions guys.

What's this "we" and "pensions" bit?

LOL he's on about himself and those blokes that bought Rover!

Anybody who has a pension is likely to have some measure of Gilts. What do you think they are?

Skirts that the Scotch blokes wear?
Reply
#13
(09-18-2020, 12:41 PM)Fido Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 11:00 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:59 AM)FenlandBoing Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:21 AM)Brentbaggie Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 06:23 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Erm. We own a lot of it in our pensions guys.

What's this "we" and "pensions" bit?

LOL he's on about himself and those blokes that bought Rover!

Anybody who has a pension is likely to have some measure of Gilts. What do you think they are?

Skirts that the Scotch blokes wear?

Only those with badly fitting dentures
Reply
#14
(09-18-2020, 11:00 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:59 AM)FenlandBoing Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:21 AM)Brentbaggie Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 06:23 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Erm. We own a lot of it in our pensions guys.

What's this "we" and "pensions" bit?

LOL he's on about himself and those blokes that bought Rover!

Anybody who has a pension is likely to have some measure of Gilts. What do you think they are?

As I say it’s the assumption of the “we” that I find so interesting. “We own it”. “Anybody” I get but the “we” leaves me cold.
(09-03-2020, 07:23 PM)baggy1 Wrote: We are The Albion
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#15
(09-15-2020, 09:52 AM)strawman Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 08:08 AM)igorbalis Wrote:
(09-14-2020, 07:37 PM)Baggybenny Wrote:
(09-14-2020, 04:07 PM)igorbalis Wrote: Genuine question.  3 trillion pounds  that's £1,000,000,000,000 I just googled it - 

who owes this money and to whom is it owed?

No, It is not !!   That figure represents One Trillion
Surprise Gold Boy didn't spot that.



3 million million - its mind blowing when you stop and think about it, 

so the Bank of England owes this money correct?

that a lot of gold bars, and didn't we sell all of ours?

1 400 oz gold bar = £500,000 (approx)  some else will have to do the maths...

You're thinking of money as something that is actually real.

Money now has no relationship whatsoever to gold or anything else, it is created by banks

Interesting stuff.

Negative interest rates, no problem just print more money!
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#16
(10-15-2020, 07:52 PM)igorbalis Wrote: Interesting stuff.

Negative interest rates, no problem just print more money!

Adopting negative interest rates is the end of the sound-money debasement road we've been on since the bank bailouts in 2008-09 (or for those with longer memories since the US dropped the $ peg to gold).

Now that we've all (almost all) been weaned off cash, money is itself a mirage - certainly not a store of value.

Negative interest rates as a means of creating inflation don't work anyway. They just pile on the pain for those on fixed incomes and create even bigger pension fund deficits.
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#17
(10-16-2020, 10:35 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 07:52 PM)igorbalis Wrote: Interesting stuff.

Negative interest rates, no problem just print more money!

Adopting negative interest rates is the end of the sound-money debasement road we've been on since the bank bailouts in 2008-09 (or for those with longer memories since the US dropped the $ peg to gold).

Now that we've all (almost all) been weaned off cash, money is itself a mirage - certainly not a store of value.

Negative interest rates as a means of creating inflation don't work anyway. They just pile on the pain for those on fixed incomes and create even bigger pension fund deficits.
Looking at some stats  - the UK had a budget surplus from 1948 to 1970. So what were we doing during all those years to have a surplus compared to recent decades when we have been in deficit? Is it due to more retirees, less production, less efficient production, decline of empire? And how do we get back on track. Maybe a whole societal change needs to take place?
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#18
Little or no pensions. People dropped dead quicker. Cheap labour. Cheap imports from the colonies. High export demand for GB quality goods. Post-war population boom, end of rationing, etc., etc. UK manufacturing relatively intact post-war. Then everyone catches up, modernises, lose markets, labour costs rise, oh dear, UK goods can’t compete, wages rise, imports cost rise, etc., etc. All goes tits up. UK manufacturing out of date, political strife, oo-er missus. Boom. Bust.
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#19
(10-16-2020, 10:24 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote: Little or no pensions. People dropped dead quicker. Cheap labour. Cheap imports from the colonies. High export demand for GB quality goods. Post-war population boom, end of rationing, etc., etc. UK manufacturing relatively intact post-war. Then everyone catches up, modernises, lose markets, labour costs rise, oh dear, UK goods can’t compete, wages rise, imports cost rise, etc., etc. All goes tits up. UK manufacturing out of date, political strife, oo-er missus. Boom. Bust.

Looking at some other stats - in the surplus decades we only spent 1-2% on health, education, social care and recent decades it seems to be between 6-8% for each. SO maybe these are the areas we need to spend less? I imagine the rise is in part to increasing population of those of retired age / aged - as you pointed out. But maybe we need to review how we spend the money we do in those areas and reduce it. Of course I'm not in favour of losing services but it's how we have our systems set up and administered so we reduce waste to an absolute minimum - such as making those responsible legally accountable for their errors when it costs the tax payer so much money, it always seems no-one is held to account - even if sometimes they are.  

The tax system is ridiculously complicated too and I would streamline this completely to 15- 20 basic rules which everyone can understand and follow both for personal and business tax to make it as transparent as possible and also fairer to all.
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#20
(09-18-2020, 12:41 PM)Fido Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 11:00 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:59 AM)FenlandBoing Wrote:
(09-18-2020, 10:21 AM)Brentbaggie Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 06:23 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Erm. We own a lot of it in our pensions guys.

What's this "we" and "pensions" bit?

LOL he's on about himself and those blokes that bought Rover!

Anybody who has a pension is likely to have some measure of Gilts. What do you think they are?

Skirts that the Scotch blokes wear?

Gilty pleasures eh.
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