Is this country now a kleptocracy
#21
Cannot be a Kleptocracy because both the "givers" and the "receivers" think it is their right.  So it is some other sort of acy
Reply
#22
(09-14-2020, 03:13 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-14-2020, 12:11 PM)PeakBaggie Wrote:
(09-12-2020, 09:02 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Back to the original point, how many millions / billions have been given to private companies with no tender process in place since this government slithered into power?

You have a point, but frankly even with so called competitive tendering governments have a woeful record
of financial and budgetry control. The special powers that this governemnt granted to deal with the Covid
crises and resutling spending should be scrutinised, but the can has not only been kicked down the road it
is almost out of sight.

Spot on PeakBaggie.

More whataboutery bollocks from you just as there was with breaking international law. The contracts they have given out to for example Serco have been an unmitigated failure we are in mid-September and still we have a failing track and trace system, testing is a complete mess and the only part working well is the local public health teams. 

Your defence of the indefensible by means of whataboutery suggests you put ideology in front of both competence and integrity on a political level. You might put great store by the mantra of least worse I think the mantra should be expect better!
Reply
#23
(09-15-2020, 10:49 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: More whataboutery bollocks from you just as there was with breaking international law. The contracts they have given out to for example Serco have been an unmitigated failure we are in mid-September and still we have a failing track and trace system, testing is a complete mess and the only part working well is the local public health teams. 

Your defence of the indefensible by means of whataboutery suggests you put ideology in front of both competence and integrity on a political level. You might put great store by the mantra of least worse I think the mantra should be expect better!

I wasn't aware I was defending anything again. I don't half defend a lot of things without realising it.

I don't think it's whataboutery for me or anyone else to point out the State's lamentable record in:

a) Buying things from the private sector
b) Running things themselves
c) Scrutinising their failures (which is what I was agreeing with Peak Baggie about)

Anyone with the slightest inclination for nationalising the power companies should be running for the hills after the failure of Robin Hood Energy and Bristol Energy for instance.

And:

a) We haven't broken international law (yet)
b) I agree with my esteemed MP, even if I'm not a member of his party anymore.
Reply
#24
(09-15-2020, 06:31 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 10:49 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: More whataboutery bollocks from you just as there was with breaking international law. The contracts they have given out to for example Serco have been an unmitigated failure we are in mid-September and still we have a failing track and trace system, testing is a complete mess and the only part working well is the local public health teams. 

Your defence of the indefensible by means of whataboutery suggests you put ideology in front of both competence and integrity on a political level. You might put great store by the mantra of least worse I think the mantra should be expect better!

I wasn't aware I was defending anything again. I don't half defend a lot of things without realising it.

I don't think it's whataboutery for me or anyone else to point out the State's lamentable record in:

a) Buying things from the private sector
b) Running things themselves
c) Scrutinising their failures (which is what I was agreeing with Peak Baggie about)

Anyone with the slightest inclination for nationalising the power companies should be running for the hills after the failure of Robin Hood Energy and Bristol Energy for instance.

And:

a) We haven't broken international law (yet)
b) I agree with my esteemed MP, even if I'm not a member of his party anymore.

Nonsense you defended the lack of tendering process which resulted in disgraced company Serco given a contract their track record clearly demonstrated they were not fit for. Then you have Dido Harding placed at the head of this failing system after she had to leave TalkTalk for failing to keep data protected not to mention their appalling customer service at the time. The decision making was not by the NHS or civil servants but by the party you are now trying to distance yourself from. 

We are still waiting for the Track and Trace App after spending how many millions on one that didn’t work and was this put out to tender? 

The tendering system currently seems to be who is friends with a cabinet minister or unelected advisor and your response is always but, but, but this has always happened and anyway it would be worse if it was left in the hands of the public sector... when all the data and research has shown the only part of our track and trace / testing that has worked so far was via local public health teams. 

The Whataboutery regarding breaking international law from yourself is there for everyone to read. 

When you go to Tory party conferences are there workshops you can attend where you’re taught to never admit failure, double down on lies and on no occasion should you accept responsibility, rather you should look to blame others?

Even if you are ignore the author as left of centre read the quotes
Reply
#25
We live in a meritocracy
Reply
#26
(09-16-2020, 07:24 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Nonsense you defended the lack of tendering process which resulted in disgraced company Serco given a contract their track record clearly demonstrated they were not fit for. Then you have Dido Harding placed at the head of this failing system after she had to leave TalkTalk for failing to keep data protected not to mention their appalling customer service at the time. The decision making was not by the NHS or civil servants but by the party you are now trying to distance yourself from. 

We are still waiting for the Track and Trace App after spending how many millions on one that didn’t work and was this put out to tender? 

The tendering system currently seems to be who is friends with a cabinet minister or unelected advisor and your response is always but, but, but this has always happened and anyway it would be worse if it was left in the hands of the public sector... when all the data and research has shown the only part of our track and trace / testing that has worked so far was via local public health teams. 

The Whataboutery regarding breaking international law from yourself is there for everyone to read. 

When you go to Tory party conferences are there workshops you can attend where you’re taught to never admit failure, double down on lies and on no occasion should you accept responsibility, rather you should look to blame others?

Even if you are ignore the author as left of centre read the quotes

Who is fit to run a novel track & trace service then?

I haven't distanced myself from the Tories Dekka. I've resigned as a member and branch chairman.

You can't run a local track and trace system from a top down behemoth like the NHS. Try it.

I wouldn't know about workshops at Tory conferences, I was usually to busy enjoying myself.
Reply
#27
(09-17-2020, 01:37 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-16-2020, 07:24 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Nonsense you defended the lack of tendering process which resulted in disgraced company Serco given a contract their track record clearly demonstrated they were not fit for. Then you have Dido Harding placed at the head of this failing system after she had to leave TalkTalk for failing to keep data protected not to mention their appalling customer service at the time. The decision making was not by the NHS or civil servants but by the party you are now trying to distance yourself from. 

We are still waiting for the Track and Trace App after spending how many millions on one that didn’t work and was this put out to tender? 

The tendering system currently seems to be who is friends with a cabinet minister or unelected advisor and your response is always but, but, but this has always happened and anyway it would be worse if it was left in the hands of the public sector... when all the data and research has shown the only part of our track and trace / testing that has worked so far was via local public health teams. 

The Whataboutery regarding breaking international law from yourself is there for everyone to read. 

When you go to Tory party conferences are there workshops you can attend where you’re taught to never admit failure, double down on lies and on no occasion should you accept responsibility, rather you should look to blame others?

Even if you are ignore the author as left of centre read the quotes

Who is fit to run a novel track & trace service then?

I haven't distanced myself from the Tories Dekka. I've resigned as a member and branch chairman.

You can't run a local track and trace system from a top down behemoth like the NHS. Try it.

I wouldn't know about workshops at Tory conferences, I was usually to busy enjoying myself.

Probably a company that doesn’t have this on its C.V as I said at the time...

‘Outsourcing giant Serco has been fined £19.2m for fraud and false accounting over its electronic tagging service for the Ministry of Justice (MoJ). The fine is part of a deferred prosecution deal with the Serious Fraud Office, which will end an investigation that began in 2013.‘

Or being led by...

Former TalkTalk CEO who led the company at the time it was fined a record £400,000 for poor website security which led to the theft of the personal data of nearly 157,000 customers.

Who has just announced today in parliament... The head of Test and Trace has said she doesn't believe "anybody was expecting to see the really sizeable increase in demand" for coronavirus tests.

You have no proof that public health bodies would not have been better placed to lead on Track and Trace its only your blind ideology that leads you to that conclusion. All the current research suggests the only part of track and trace and testing that is working well is being delivered by local Public Health teams.
Reply
#28
(09-17-2020, 03:19 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(09-17-2020, 01:37 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-16-2020, 07:24 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Nonsense you defended the lack of tendering process which resulted in disgraced company Serco given a contract their track record clearly demonstrated they were not fit for. Then you have Dido Harding placed at the head of this failing system after she had to leave TalkTalk for failing to keep data protected not to mention their appalling customer service at the time. The decision making was not by the NHS or civil servants but by the party you are now trying to distance yourself from. 

We are still waiting for the Track and Trace App after spending how many millions on one that didn’t work and was this put out to tender? 

The tendering system currently seems to be who is friends with a cabinet minister or unelected advisor and your response is always but, but, but this has always happened and anyway it would be worse if it was left in the hands of the public sector... when all the data and research has shown the only part of our track and trace / testing that has worked so far was via local public health teams. 

The Whataboutery regarding breaking international law from yourself is there for everyone to read. 

When you go to Tory party conferences are there workshops you can attend where you’re taught to never admit failure, double down on lies and on no occasion should you accept responsibility, rather you should look to blame others?

Even if you are ignore the author as left of centre read the quotes

Who is fit to run a novel track & trace service then?

I haven't distanced myself from the Tories Dekka. I've resigned as a member and branch chairman.

You can't run a local track and trace system from a top down behemoth like the NHS. Try it.

I wouldn't know about workshops at Tory conferences, I was usually to busy enjoying myself.

Probably a company that doesn’t have this on its C.V as I said at the time...

‘Outsourcing giant Serco has been fined £19.2m for fraud and false accounting over its electronic tagging service for the Ministry of Justice (MoJ). The fine is part of a deferred prosecution deal with the Serious Fraud Office, which will end an investigation that began in 2013.‘

Or being led by...

Former TalkTalk CEO who led the company at the time it was fined a record £400,000 for poor website security which led to the theft of the personal data of nearly 157,000 customers.

You have no proof that public health bodies would not have been better placed to lead on Track and Trace its only your blind ideology that leads you to that conclusion. All the current research suggests the only part of track and trace and testing that is working well is being delivered by local Public Health teams.

Fear not, Dido has been promoted to run the World beating replacement for PHE
Reply
#29
(09-17-2020, 03:19 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: You have no proof that public health bodies would not have been better placed to lead on Track and Trace its only your blind ideology that leads you to that conclusion. All the current research suggests the only part of track and trace and testing that is working well is being delivered by local Public Health teams.

You have no proof that public health bodies would have been better placed to lead on Track and Trace its only your blind ideology that leads you to that conclusion.

The Top Down producer-centric nature of publuc health services does not lend itself easily to, say, the highly decentralised German model. The track & trace / testing catastrophe is yet another indictment of our overly centralised and over bureaucratic system.
Reply
#30
(09-18-2020, 11:04 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(09-17-2020, 03:19 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: You have no proof that public health bodies would not have been better placed to lead on Track and Trace its only your blind ideology that leads you to that conclusion. All the current research suggests the only part of track and trace and testing that is working well is being delivered by local Public Health teams.

You have no proof that public health bodies would have been better placed to lead on Track and Trace its only your blind ideology that leads you to that conclusion.

The Top Down producer-centric nature of publuc health services does not lend itself easily to, say, the highly decentralised German model. The track & trace / testing catastrophe is yet another indictment of our overly centralised and over bureaucratic system.

Nonsense it’s down to the Government giving discredited / inappropriate companies contracts and placing an unaccountable and unqualified ex-mobile phone CEO with a patchy CV and dubious links to the same government, that sees us with a failing system. This isn’t an NHS Track and Trace / Testing system it’s a SERCO and Co Track and Trace / test system and no amount of discrediting the NHS by association changes that. 

You defended the contracting of a company who defrauded the public purse to run this debacle and you campaigned for the party that has contracted them to do the job. 

As I said the only part of the system currently working well is via the local public health teams. Who knew that those who know their communities and care about health rather than profit are better equipped for er public’s health?
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
{myadvertisements[zone_2]}