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Interesting article
#11
And the EU can have its army now, which I doubt will deal with any external threat but instead concentrate on 'internal' conflicts such as the Visegrad group and Catalonia.

My avatar looks more realistic by the day.
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#12
(11-23-2017, 09:39 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Hahahhahaha.

This the most interventionist centrist soup of a Tory administration I can remember. The opposition has merely drifted over the horizon. There's nothing extreme about the Tory position, more's the pity.

Do you actually work with anyone who is directly effective by the cuts and stagnant wage growth and I'm not talking about upper and middle management bods all looking at clever ways to 'streamline' their operations? If you truly believe that the policies of your chosen party have not pushed people towards the left wing fringes of politics you are living in LaLa Land. When you punish the weakest for the strongest actions you get a more extreme reaction. I have never been a Labour voter but having seen first hand how the cuts have hurt the weakest disproptionately your party gave me no choice but to lurch to the left at the last election. A position I am really not comfortable with. 

Btw don't spin things with regards to how middle of the road this government when the agenda for Brexit is being pushed by your most right wing members. You can say Brexit wasn't a party issue but in reality we are only where we are due to your parties internal party politics.
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#13
(11-24-2017, 08:11 AM)Pneumann Wrote: Yes, decent article. The impression I get is that people in Europe are somewhat bewildered by the UK. Clearly the place is not that significant any longer, and likely to become less so as the country's trading relationships are adjusted and other extra-European economies grow more quickly.


Going back to folk abroad, they seem to shrug their shoulders, acknowledge that the British have always been touched, and quietly appreciate the easier working relationship in the EU--even though many worry at the loss of an ally and the linguistic ramifications of the loss of the major sponsor of English as defacto official Eu language.

Exactly this, it's just not as important as it is to the UK and therefore the UK needs to make the running while everyone else gets on with their life.
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#14
(11-24-2017, 11:39 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Do you actually work with anyone who is directly effective by the cuts and stagnant wage growth and I'm not talking about upper and middle management bods all looking at clever ways to 'streamline' their operations? If you truly believe that the policies of your chosen party have not pushed people towards the left wing fringes of politics you are living in LaLa Land. When you punish the weakest for the strongest actions you get a more extreme reaction. I have never been a Labour voter but having seen first hand how the cuts have hurt the weakest disproptionately your party gave me no choice but to lurch to the left at the last election. A position I am really not comfortable with. 

Btw don't spin things with regards to how middle of the road this government when the agenda for Brexit is being pushed by your most right wing members. You can say Brexit wasn't a party issue but in reality we are only where we are due to your parties internal party politics.

Everyone is affected by stagnant wage growth. But which is worse; full employment & stagnant wages or 3 million unemployed & 3% wage inflation. Stagnant wages are as much a product of low interest rates as of anything else. Again, what would you rather have; full employment, stagnant wages and historically suppressed interest rates - or 3 million uemployed, 3% wages in inflation and interest rates of 5% leaving companies and households on the brink.

This is why people who've never lived through a pre-Blair Labour government (or have and don't care about the effects) are drawn to the siren calls of the left. Socialism of the type suggested by McDonnell in particular (sacked by Ken Livingstone for trying to set an illegal budget no less) hasn't worked anywhere ever and never will.

Others point to us "moving" to a softer comfier type of lefty social democracy, but let me tell you this - and this underlines why you are wrong about the Tories:

State expenditure - Record High at >40% of GDP
Regulation - Greater than ever
Welfare State - Costing a record £10,000 per household every year

You lot scream "NEOLIBERALISM" - it isn't. It's far from it - we already live in a crony-capitalist social democracy and you want more of it. Forgive me for laughing like a drain every time I hear May & Hammond - the two wettest Tories to lead the party in my lifetime being accused of being fucking "neoliberal" it's the joke of the century.

In tough economic times the poorest always suffer the most, because they are the poorest. The last Labour PM sold them (and the rest us) down the river with a ham-fisted bailout. We are, and will contiune to pay the price for that largesse for another couple of decades.

I'm not sure you have any idea what you're talking about when referring to Brexit being driven by the most right wing Tories. What do you mean by Right Wing exactly? Like who exactly? Peter Bone? Bill Cash? Good, sentient folk like Frank Field and Gisela Stuart on the Labour benches envisage(d) a liberal Brexit not dissimilar my own view (and that of any good liberal).
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#15
(11-24-2017, 10:08 AM)Protheroe Wrote: And the EU can have its army now, which I doubt will deal with any external threat but instead concentrate on 'internal' conflicts such as the Visegrad group and Catalonia.

My avatar looks more realistic by the day.

With the Hungarians, poles, Czechs and Austrians you need to get a swastika on your fleg.
If the EU had any Bollix and integrity they'd be throwing em out of the club.
But expansion, expansion, expansion
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#16
(11-24-2017, 07:41 PM)Donegal Wrote: With the Hungarians, poles, Czechs and Austrians you need to get a swastika on your fleg.

The swastika / hammer & sickle are interchangeable. They both represent statist oppression and usually murder of ones own citizens.

I thank my lucky stars every day that I don't live in a country with any history of either extreme, and that we're leaving behind a bloc that has a bloody history of both.
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