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Theresa strikea again
#11
(11-16-2017, 08:35 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:


Looks like you're agreeing with me that government isn't your friend and is never benign. All you can hope for therefore is, the least worst outcome. Welcome to the club.

And that woman at 2:34:28 is priceless. There's a victim of hyper normalisation if you ever saw one.
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#12
(11-14-2017, 10:08 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Like I said Heath, it's exceptionally convenient to find a scapegoat for defeat. Particularly when the WHOLE of the strength of the International Establishment was and remains on the side of Remain. The odds were hopelessly stacked against Vote Leave, and it was the by far the most amateur campaign I've ever been involved in.

If we were in the 1930s I'm sure the same voices would be insisting it was the Jews' fault. Someone on the left probably is as I type.

The simple fact is, those who run our country cannot accept that just over half those who bothered to vote in the referendum didn't swallow their bullshit. I linked to a video of Labour's Peter Shore in 1975 on another thread earlier today. What he said then stands today, the Establishment is still trying to scare us into some sort accommodation with a political bloc. They're terrified of running the country, because overnight they become accountable.

I couldn't disagree more with your view that the establishment was overwhelmingly on the side of remain.

It seems to me that there were much of the establishment on the side of leave, from public school boys such as Johnson and Rees Mogg, to traditional andp long standing newspapers such as the Telegraph. They did well at representing them as anti-establishment, but they really aren't.
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#13
(11-17-2017, 01:14 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 10:08 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Like I said Heath, it's exceptionally convenient to find a scapegoat for defeat. Particularly when the WHOLE of the strength of the International Establishment was and remains on the side of Remain. The odds were hopelessly stacked against Vote Leave, and it was the by far the most amateur campaign I've ever been involved in.

If we were in the 1930s I'm sure the same voices would be insisting it was the Jews' fault. Someone on the left probably is as I type.

The simple fact is, those who run our country cannot accept that just over half those who bothered to vote in the referendum didn't swallow their bullshit. I linked to a video of Labour's Peter Shore in 1975 on another thread earlier today. What he said then stands today, the Establishment is still trying to scare us into some sort accommodation with a political bloc. They're terrified of running the country, because overnight they become accountable.

I couldn't disagree more with your view that the establishment was overwhelmingly on the side of remain.

It seems to me that there were much of the establishment on the side of leave, from public school boys such as Johnson and Rees Mogg, to traditional andp long standing newspapers such as the Telegraph. They did well at representing them as anti-establishment, but they really aren't.

Exactly.
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#14
(11-17-2017, 01:14 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote: I couldn't disagree more with your view that the establishment was overwhelmingly on the side of remain.

Then you clearly don't understand what the Establishment is.

" leading politicians, senior civil servants, senior barristers and judges, aristocrats, Oxbridge academics, senior clergy, the most important financiers and industrialists, governors of the BBC, and the members of and top aides to the royal family."

Name me one of those groups that came out for Brexit?
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#15
(11-17-2017, 02:10 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(11-17-2017, 01:14 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote: I couldn't disagree more with your view that the establishment was overwhelmingly on the side of remain.

Then you clearly don't understand what the Establishment is.

" leading politicians, senior civil servants, senior barristers and judges, aristocrats, Oxbridge academics, senior clergy, the most important financiers and industrialists, governors of the BBC, and the members of and top aides to the royal family."

Name me one of those groups that came out for Brexit?

Boris Johnson & co- intelligent scheming conniving cunts who did what they did because they calculated it would hand them the Tory party. And it may well do. The rest - well they may be intelligent, scheming and conniving but they knew every one would be better off IN
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#16
I never had and never will have strong feelings about whether either option was 'better'. In the cold light of day it was a vanity project for Cameron that went badly wrong and all the other leading lights, from top to bottom, have their own petty reasons for their position in the trenches. The reality now is that it has unfolded into something that is economically and politically destructive for all concerned. It will only become something of clarity and purpose when we have a new government and a central consensus. We wont get that for some time.
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#17
(11-17-2017, 11:48 PM)Heath Wrote: I never had and never will have strong feelings about whether either option was 'better'. In the cold light of day it was a vanity project for Cameron that went badly wrong and all the other leading lights, from top to bottom, have their own petty reasons for their position in the trenches. The reality now is that it has unfolded into something that is economically and politically destructive for all concerned. It will only become something of clarity and purpose when we have a new government and a central consensus. We wont get that for some time.

Disagree. It’s an opportunity in the hands of incompetents. Anyone with any nous would have started from a position of hard Brexit whilst guaranteeing the future of those people currently in the country not the other way round.
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#18
(11-18-2017, 07:17 AM)Fido Wrote: Disagree. It’s an opportunity in the hands of incompetents. Anyone with any nous would have started from a position of hard Brexit whilst guaranteeing the future of those people currently in the country not the other way round.

Agree +1
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#19
(11-18-2017, 07:17 AM)Fido Wrote: Disagree. It’s an opportunity in the hands of incompetents. Anyone with any nous would have started from a position of hard Brexit whilst guaranteeing the future of those people currently in the country not the other way round.

Those who campaigned for leaving having at least a faint notion of what they imagined Brexit would look like would have been helpful. You know, just on the off chance that they actually won the vote.
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#20
(11-18-2017, 02:14 PM)Ossian Wrote:
(11-18-2017, 07:17 AM)Fido Wrote: Disagree. It’s an opportunity in the hands of incompetents. Anyone with any nous would have started from a position of hard Brexit whilst guaranteeing the future of those people currently in the country not the other way round.

Those who campaigned for leaving having at least a faint notion of what they imagined Brexit would look like would have been helpful. You know, just on the off chance that they actually won the vote.

Outside the EU and all of its institutions. That's what I imagined it looked like. As Fido said, that should've been the starting point, not some ludicrous merry-go-round about money.

It's all about the money. There is nothing more to this at all.
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