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Tory Brexiters and the NHS
#1
Just seen John Major saying
Gove wants to privatise it
Johnson wants to charge people for using it
IDS wants people to have health insurance
"The NHS post Brexit n the hands of these people would be as safe as a pet hamster with a hungry Python"
Good old Major for telling the truth
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#2
(11-07-2017, 11:38 PM)Donegal Wrote: Just seen John Major saying
Gove wants to privatise it
Johnson wants to charge people for using it
IDS wants people to have health insurance
"The NHS post Brexit n the hands of these people would be as safe as a pet hamster with a hungry Python"
Good old Major for telling the truth

Perhaps you could get your newspapers and TV up to date. That was an interview from June 2016 as part of an attack on the leave campaign. Yesterday's man, yesterday's news.
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#3
(11-07-2017, 11:38 PM)Donegal Wrote: Just seen John Major saying
Gove wants to privatise it
Johnson wants to charge people for using it
IDS wants people to have health insurance
"The NHS post Brexit n the hands of these people would be as safe as a pet hamster with a hungry Python"
Good old Major for telling the truth

The health insurance system seems to work OK in Germany, for example.
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#4
(11-08-2017, 07:44 AM)Fido Wrote:
(11-07-2017, 11:38 PM)Donegal Wrote: Just seen John Major saying
Gove wants to privatise it
Johnson wants to charge people for using it
IDS wants people to have health insurance
"The NHS post Brexit n the hands of these people would be as safe as a pet hamster with a hungry Python"
Good old Major for telling the truth

The health insurance system seems to work OK in Germany, for example.

From what I know of it the German system isn't bad. Minimum 7% docked from salary. German state now also putting into the sickness funds. Costs 1,2% more of GDP than NHS
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#5
If our system is so good, why has no nation on Earth copied it?

When any virtue signalling NHS zealot is able to answer this simple question then it may be worth engaging in a debate. You accused me yesterday of a binary argument (how very dare you) and today you begin with public good, private bad. Bravo.
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#6
(11-08-2017, 07:27 AM)Strawman Wrote:
(11-07-2017, 11:38 PM)Donegal Wrote: Just seen John Major saying
Gove wants to privatise it
Johnson wants to charge people for using it
IDS wants people to have health insurance
"The NHS post Brexit n the hands of these people would be as safe as a pet hamster with a hungry Python"
Good old Major for telling the truth

Perhaps you could get your newspapers and TV up to date. That was an interview from June 2016 as part of an attack on the leave campaign. Yesterday's man, yesterday's news.
Perhaps he could get his newspapers and TV to give him some Irish news for a change. Schaden Freund most zealous.
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#7
(11-08-2017, 09:36 AM)Protheroe Wrote: If our system is so good, why has no nation on Earth copied it?

When any virtue signalling NHS zealot is able to answer this simple question then it may be worth engaging in a debate. You accused me yesterday of a binary argument (how very dare you) and today you begin with public good, private bad. Bravo.

DEar MDProtheroe
that whole post is a fantastical invention
I merely quoted what major said and praised it
You will know by now that I am a fan of the NHS but do not see it as a panacea or that it does not need reform. Even in this very thread I have agreed that the German model is worthy
If you want to have a row with me then be decent enough to start it in the basis of something that I actually believe or have said.
I really do not know what has come over you recently you poor thing. Are you having too many hours idling in the Hagley Bathams pub?
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#8
As in the other thread, are you a fan of the NHS because of how it's organised or the outcomes it provides?

Every other modern economy with a succesful health service has far more mixed provision. If the outcome is quality healthcare free at the point of use, would you support far more private involvement in delivery?
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#9
We have done this dance before....outcomes have little to do with the NHS but you keep attempting to make the same empty argument


#12 07-17-2017, 03:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2017, 03:56 AM by Donegal.)
(07-14-2017, 12:11 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
The Commonwealth Fund study is an outlier. The NHS can be as affordable and efficient as it likes. I'd rather it was top for outcomes personally, wouldn't you? Otherwise what's the point.

10th out of 11 on keeping people alive is appalling.

Health outcomes have little to do with NHS

#12
07-17-2017, 03:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2017, 03:56 AM by Donegal.)

(07-14-2017, 12:11 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Wrote:The Commonwealth Fund study is an outlier. The NHS can be as affordable and efficient as it likes. I'd rather it was top for outcomes personally, wouldn't you? Otherwise what's the point.

10th out of 11 on keeping people alive is appalling.


Health outcomes have little to do with NHS


[Image: attachment.php?thumbnail=220]    

If you look at UK rates of obesity, diabetes etc you are near world leaders. Pitching up at your A and E and expecting the NHS to undo the damage is more than hopeful. Some work to do on sepsis and COPD for sure

   

If you look at UK rates of obesity, diabetes etc you are near world leaders. Pitching up at your A and E and expecting the NHS to undo the damage is more than hopeful. Some work to do on sepsis and COPD for sure
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#10
I think we have very different ideas of what health outcomes are. Measured like for like with other countries (generally accepted as a robust measure), the NHS is simply not good at keeping people alive. Clearly you're delighted that it's No1 for "efficiency" though.

Same argument all the time. You think process matters / I think outcomes matter. Ying / Yang. Authoritarian statist / Evil liberal. Wrong / Right
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