Fixing the deficit.
#11
There are a couple of things I would add to the OP.
First, most economists agree that austerity doesn't (and didn't) work. We were badly prepared at the outset after 10 years austerity. Among the lower earners in the UK, the money simply goes around, from me to you, from you to him, and so on. Based on that, cuts are not going to be the answer.
Second. Borrowing is incredibly cheap currently. Although it's never great to carry debt, now is not the worst time.
Third. Britain has been in debt for longer than any of us have been alive. After WW2 we owed the USA a vast fortune which only got paid off in recent years. We were absolutely skint. Still, we embarked on a social spending spree which set this country up to be a very pleasant place to live. (including setting up the NHS).
I'm not advocating debt as a way of life but it is the price we pay for trying to defend our citizens.

I've believed for a while that our income taxes ought to go up a little. We also need to break the stranglehold the huge multi nationals have over all nations whereby they pay little or no tax. We may need International co operation with that. Ultimately, we will only begin to pay for this crisis by encouraging the people of the UK to earn and spend and pay taxes.  
Cutting their spending money won't solve anything.
Also.  Angela Merkel has already commented that if Germany learn one thing from this, it is that they mustn't rely on other countries for ventilators. This could be broader based and certainly applies to the UK. We badly need to encourage our manufacturing industries.
Last. I would like to see a little unity with regards to finding the source of this virus. USA (Yes, I know Trump is bonkers, but all the same), Germany and Australia have all accused China of behaving badly in their disclosures. China have now taken action against Australian imports as a response. We need  worldwide unity to hold them to account. (Obviously, just my onions).
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#12
In many ways this is an artificial recession bought on by the virus as with a war, and hopefully there will be a quick initial kick of growth that can be built on - though I am aware as with WWII that things don't always get back to usual quickly after a shock like a war/pandemic and we had rationing for a good while... anyway, as cautious and concerned as I am about ending the lockdown too soon, it will be good to see things starting to get a bit more normal economy wise and the start of that kick-back
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#13
(05-14-2020, 02:40 PM)Tom Joad Wrote: There are a couple of things I would add to the OP.
First, most economists agree that austerity doesn't (and didn't) work. We were badly prepared at the outset after 10 years austerity. Among the lower earners in the UK, the money simply goes around, from me to you, from you to him, and so on. Based on that, cuts are not going to be the answer.
Second. Borrowing is incredibly cheap currently. Although it's never great to carry debt, now is not the worst time.
Third. Britain has been in debt for longer than any of us have been alive. After WW2 we owed the USA a vast fortune which only got paid off in recent years. We were absolutely skint. Still, we embarked on a social spending spree which set this country up to be a very pleasant place to live. (including setting up the NHS).
I'm not advocating debt as a way of life but it is the price we pay for trying to defend our citizens.

I've believed for a while that our income taxes ought to go up a little. We also need to break the stranglehold the huge multi nationals have over all nations whereby they pay little or no tax. We may need International co operation with that. Ultimately, we will only begin to pay for this crisis by encouraging the people of the UK to earn and spend and pay taxes.  
Cutting their spending money won't solve anything.
Also.  Angela Merkel has already commented that if Germany learn one thing from this, it is that they mustn't rely on other countries for ventilators. This could be broader based and certainly applies to the UK. We badly need to encourage our manufacturing industries.
Last. I would like to see a little unity with regards to finding the source of this virus. USA (Yes, I know Trump is bonkers, but all the same), Germany and Australia have all accused China of behaving badly in their disclosures. China have now taken action against Australian imports as a response. We need  worldwide unity to hold them to account. (Obviously, just my onions).


I agree mostly with that except borrowing money is fine in times of low interest if you are intending to pay it back. Otherwise you hit a wall like we did in the 70's, interest rates go up and you essentially go bankrupt. 

I'm not bothered that China was the source of the virus, but like you say, I am bothered there may not have been full disclosure. I also worry that the China issue will be used to deflect scrutiny from our own respective governments and global response.

(05-14-2020, 02:49 PM)Pickle Rick Wrote: In many ways this is an artificial recession bought on by the virus as with a war, and hopefully there will be a quick initial kick of growth that can be built on - though I am aware as with WWII that things don't always get back to usual quickly after a shock like a war/pandemic and we had rationing for a good while... anyway, as cautious and concerned as I am about ending the lockdown too soon, it will be good to see things starting to get a bit more normal economy wise and the start of that kick-back

There were already plenty of indicators of an oncoming recession beforehand. They were reported widely. Maybe they will stop being an issue after a reversal as large as this. Regardless, I hope you're right.
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#14
Sorry Fuzz, to be clear, I wasn't advocating borrowing money willy nilly. Just saying these are exceptional times and we have a responsibility to protect the nation. As such we are lucky that borrowing costs are so low. Or to be blunt, we need to protect jobs so there is something to come back to.
Regarding China, I tend to criticize them regularly as I am completely bewildered at how their government gets away with so much. I'm not even going to list any, as pretty much everyone is aware of them. Re Covid19, there is no doubt they hid the truth. I can't see that covering up for anyone else's mistakes when the time to reckon it all up comes.
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#15
Invest in infrastructure, doesn’t matter how. UK is literally a generation behind on this.
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#16
Yes totally agree roads and rail is where to do it .
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#17
(05-15-2020, 06:57 AM)The liquidator Wrote: Yes totally agree roads and rail is where to do it .

No self interest there at all then Liq  Big Grin (I agree by the way)
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#18
(05-15-2020, 06:11 AM)Pneumann Wrote: Invest in infrastructure, doesn’t matter how. UK is literally a generation behind on this.

Who are we a generation behind?

Have you been to Germany or the States? German infrastructure in particular is in a shocking state.
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#19
(05-15-2020, 06:57 AM)The liquidator Wrote: Yes totally agree roads and rail is where to do it .

If this virus has shown us one thing many business can continue without the need for travel on a daily basis.

The whole concept of HS2 must be under scrutiny now. I'd say spend £8bn on superfast broadband infrastructure across the whole country and pocket the other 100bn for the debt we now have.

The whole concept that we will be able to pay back nigh on £500bn in cash any time soon is just a pipe dream. Forget that, you might as well add another 100bn to it for now. The main focus of the next 2 years has to be growth and jobs - with the shitstorm that is Brexit sucking the life out of us as well it's going to be tough. We need a completely new approach to generating our own goods, buying our own products, and all of us have to be putting cash into our economy for a while so holidays here, buying british etc.
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#20
The only thing I disagree with is holiday here not a chance for me .
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