UK Covid death toll

[Derek Hardballs]

Interesting stats from 2018 with regards to capacity within the NHS to cope just with an above average flu season. The problem with regards to capacity is not simply down to Covid it’s down to a lack of staff. Now I wonder why that is? It also puts into perspective why the NHS is having to be cautious with regards to capacity this year. Bear in mind NHS professionals have already said their staff are exhausted due to the pandemic response.

Capacity

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Even if you think the deaths are a price worth paying, before they die they will require hospital treatment, unless of course you are suggesting 111 asks if they are in a risk group and just say tough  -  the more in hospital the less resource for other medical requirements.

The Nightingales turned away patients because to man them requires staff to be taken from other hospitals.

The whole point is that the NHS resources can only cope with a certain level of patients, so if you have more older or even younger at risk patients in hospital then that resource will be even less available for other medical requirements

The whole point is the NHS is doing little else but Covid which will result in many more wholly premature deaths of younger people in the future from late / undiagnosed conditions. It may sound stark, it may sound heartless but that is the opportunity cost we've arrived at due to the dumb decisions of the last 7 months

Wrong tense - was doing little else but Covid, and that was wrong, most 'covid' hospitals have now been split into covid and covid safe - in supposedly one of the worst hospitals in the country. I have had 2 consultant appointments, on time and admittedly by phone (although tests were arranged at  a covid safe hospital) and my scan was also on time.

However if we go back to the virus spreading in the way it was and hospital admissions rising as they are now, then staff will have to be taken away from general testing and duties again and have to care for those that are dying or in ICU long term.

Therein lies the catch - allow more normality - hospital admissions rise, staff are redeployed from their normal duties to care for ICU patients even if they are dying and less younger and at less risk patients for covid are again delayed.

If you want to protect younger patients and allow them to get their tests etc on time then you need to protect those at risk so they require less care even if they are dying.

And if you think that basically imprisoning sections of the population at risk i(the old, diabetic, overweight) is the answer, then I suspect that will be as successful as trying to keep others from partying, protesting, going to beach etc

The new norm where we are completely agreeing on something SM  Your points are spot on (tried to +1) your post but seems like I’m banned from doing so or it isn’t working). I have tried to explain this to those wanting to go back to normal (not sure that will ever work in a pandemic with a new virus) but alas it doesn’t show any critical thinking apparently. You can’t separate society into neat little boxes we are all interconnected and as a result solutions will have to tread a middle ground of suppressing the virus and trying to keep the economy / education operating.

Dear god. Once again it's not a new virus it's another strain of an existing Covid variant -see Mers-Cov Sars-cov, sars-cov2, HKU1, NL63. We live with the same viruses year in year out and we operate normally. Because of that our memory immunology T-cells have a 30% likelihood of triggering a response without us even knowing and we carry on having "had" Covid.

This happens to be slightly more lethal than a normal flu but in viral terms non-lethal. For 50 years we've coped well or badly depending on the year. This is no different.

For god's sake stop the scaremongering, live in the real world. If you want to make a point about the lack of staff in NHS hospitals that's fine but done conflate that with how to determine a response to a virus that comes round annually.

As for your point about "trying to keep others from partying, protesting, going to beach" again it's just a throwaway expression with null evidence. Zero spikes in Covid cases/admissions with large scale public gatherings. See Bournemouth in July and plenty of other cases. And actually that's exactly what they should be doing - and if you are vulnerable or ill then you don't go until you can. Simple. A bit like any time. In fact the local lockdowns have clearly shown that they don't stop the progression of covid. So the concept that it would work nationally is a complete joke. It just delays the inevitable and I say let's get through it now even if there are some hardships.

My mother-in-law was on oxygen for many years. Any infection in her lung would have finished her off. If any of us had a cold in the family we stayed away and she stayed in. Was she shortchanged - was she moaning that others should change their behaviours so she could go to hospital or go to the beach. No. It was managed and everyone won. And she got a number of extra years living that way.

The virus of course is a new strain of Covid so the semantics don’t really amount to much. This new strain  is more contagious and more damaging to health. The symptoms are more varied and in a number of cases leave patients with long term conditions. How many Long Flu clinics are there? How many people who have the flu are still suffering 6-7mths after contracting the virus? 

You accuse me of sensationalising numbers when all I’ve used is some of the most most accurate figures we currently have. You are constantly playing things down and alluding to some conspiracy. So what is the reason for the U.K., most of Europe etc are putting such measures in place? What are they not telling us?