Culture Wars
#72
(06-30-2020, 09:25 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote:
(06-30-2020, 08:40 PM)Borin\ Baggie Wrote:
(06-30-2020, 10:43 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: Not sure i would put Atlee into this category. No doubt he was popular with a segment of the electorate - indeed i think i am right in saying that in losing the 1951 election, the votes gained by Labour still is the highest ever achieved by a political party in a UK election.

But he was very much supported by Labour supporters and was able to get the Labour vote out, i doubt he had appeal to Conservative voters. Blair i would say was a different kettle of fish. And though this may surprise some people, i also think Thatcher had the ability to reach into the other party's base and take their votes.

But generally in UK politics the winners are those who can get their own core supporters out. The importance of the floating voter is very much exaggerated in my opinion.

Wholeheartedly disagree with Thatcher. In '79 Labour's vote share didn't decrease that much and it seems more like Liberal voters switched based on the numbers, '83 and '87 she was bailed out by FPTP as the Liberal-SDP Alliance was ridiculously underrepresented (25% of the vote, 23 seats).

The only leaders in the "modern" political system we have that I'd attribute that to is Blair. He worked with Paddy Ashdown in 1997 and the Labour gains that election were from the Conservative voters switching, due to the LD-Lab agreement and the cooperation agreement the Labour government effectively had 460 odd votes they could garner support from with 420 being Labour MPs. Before that you're looking at Baldwin, Gladstone and Disreali realistically.

I think Thatcher did take Labour voters directly. Plenty of C2 voters who previously would have been Labour voters switched - perhaps in greater numbers in 1983 and 1987, that 1979

I agree on Blair, especially in 1997, but by 2001 and 2005 he was only winning because the Conservatives were still viewed with total contempt by the electorate. Always worth remembering that Labour in their worst election result since world war 2 (in terms of seats won) still got more voted than Blair did in winning a 60 seat majority in 2005.

And some people will try and tell you that differential turnout doesn't matter.

By 2001 Prescott had pissed off the Lib Dems to the point where Kennedy retracted from the pact. In the 2001 and 2005 elections Blair was bailed out like Thatcher was by the Labour vote swinging to the SNP and Lib Dems who were being shafted by FPTP, the Tory vote share didn't increase that much.
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Messages In This Thread
Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-18-2020, 06:04 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Fido - 06-19-2020, 05:57 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by JOK - 06-19-2020, 07:09 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by PeakBaggie - 06-19-2020, 08:20 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by ChamonixBaggie - 06-19-2020, 08:24 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-19-2020, 08:50 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 06-19-2020, 09:15 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-19-2020, 09:34 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-19-2020, 09:53 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 06-19-2020, 11:12 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-19-2020, 11:30 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 06-19-2020, 11:34 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-19-2020, 11:50 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-19-2020, 04:53 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Pneumann - 06-20-2020, 06:52 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-20-2020, 07:19 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Pneumann - 06-22-2020, 09:17 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-22-2020, 10:09 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-22-2020, 10:56 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-22-2020, 11:01 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-22-2020, 11:25 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by CA Baggie - 06-22-2020, 12:21 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-22-2020, 12:39 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-23-2020, 08:07 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 06-22-2020, 11:16 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 06-23-2020, 08:14 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-23-2020, 08:17 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-23-2020, 08:58 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by The liquidator - 06-23-2020, 09:35 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-23-2020, 09:41 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by The liquidator - 06-23-2020, 09:49 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-23-2020, 09:53 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by ChamonixBaggie - 06-23-2020, 09:51 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-23-2020, 10:43 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by The liquidator - 06-23-2020, 09:58 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-23-2020, 10:54 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-23-2020, 11:58 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-23-2020, 12:54 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 06-23-2020, 12:58 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by JOK - 06-23-2020, 01:25 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-24-2020, 12:31 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by JOK - 06-23-2020, 12:48 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-23-2020, 01:46 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by JOK - 06-23-2020, 03:41 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-23-2020, 04:46 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by JOK - 06-23-2020, 06:36 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-23-2020, 08:16 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 06-23-2020, 07:29 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by JOK - 06-24-2020, 10:13 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-24-2020, 11:41 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-24-2020, 03:31 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Neil Parsley - 06-26-2020, 12:25 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-26-2020, 12:39 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 06-26-2020, 01:20 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by JOK - 06-26-2020, 04:49 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-29-2020, 09:15 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 06-29-2020, 09:25 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-29-2020, 09:43 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 06-29-2020, 10:32 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 06-29-2020, 12:39 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 06-26-2020, 12:54 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Brentbaggie - 06-27-2020, 08:41 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 06-29-2020, 09:29 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-29-2020, 10:03 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Pneumann - 06-30-2020, 04:42 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 06-30-2020, 07:44 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Pneumann - 06-30-2020, 09:25 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 07-01-2020, 11:47 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 07-01-2020, 12:12 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 07-01-2020, 12:45 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 07-02-2020, 08:51 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 07-02-2020, 07:28 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 07-01-2020, 12:44 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 06-30-2020, 10:33 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 06-30-2020, 10:43 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-30-2020, 08:40 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Shabby Russian - 06-30-2020, 09:25 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Borin' Baggie - 06-30-2020, 09:45 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 07-07-2020, 10:45 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 07-07-2020, 11:24 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 07-07-2020, 04:26 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 07-08-2020, 08:19 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 07-08-2020, 10:19 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 07-09-2020, 06:50 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 07-09-2020, 07:47 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 07-10-2020, 07:54 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 07-10-2020, 08:37 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 07-10-2020, 08:47 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 07-07-2020, 07:34 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by The liquidator - 07-08-2020, 12:39 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 07-08-2020, 01:06 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 07-09-2020, 08:25 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by ChamonixBaggie - 07-10-2020, 08:31 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 07-10-2020, 11:15 AM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 07-10-2020, 01:11 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 07-10-2020, 03:54 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Protheroe - 07-10-2020, 04:14 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by baggy1 - 07-10-2020, 04:46 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Derek Hardballs - 07-10-2020, 12:23 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Ossian - 07-10-2020, 06:20 PM
RE: Culture Wars - by Brentbaggie - 07-10-2020, 09:49 PM

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